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Best state of tune?
#1528511
06/03/2015 11:24
06/03/2015 11:24
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Obviously if money, reliabilty and fabrication issues were no option we would all be Gt30/Holset monsters but taking in to consideration cost, ease of fitment, power and reliability what would you say is the best state of tune?
For example ill use a Saab 9-5 Aero as a good car to try and explain what i mean. Stage 3 is readily accepted as the best package as it will give you a 60-70 hike in bhp (model depending 230/260 as standard) and only requires a 3" DP, 3.5 FPR and a remap and is pretty safe on the engine and box but only costs around 350/400 quid all in. Ideally id like to get my 20VT to around the 300bhp mark. Is it just an FMIC, Hybrid turbo and live map?
Cheers.
Phil
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1528528
06/03/2015 12:59
06/03/2015 12:59
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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Ideally id like to get my 20VT to around the 300bhp mark. Is it just an FMIC, Hybrid turbo and live map? Yes
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1528540
06/03/2015 13:43
06/03/2015 13:43
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
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I don't really consider there to be such a thing as a "best state of tune." You can make an expensive, unreliable 300 bhp, or a good value, reliable 400 bhp.
Also 300 bhp isn't always 300 bhp: 300 is the magic number that everyone wants to break, but a lot of Coupe owners want to do it on the cheap; stock pistons (actually, 300 is fine for 20VT pistons), stock exhaust system, tiny turbo. So in order to save the engine, the torque has to be wound back. The result is, yeah, it makes 300, 340 or whatever, but it's slow as [cloud9] because it doesn't have the torque to really make it move. 'Course, nobody knows that because practically every modded 20VT on here has exactly the same mods and tuning!
So I think the best state of tune is the best that you can afford and what's most suitable for your intended use - be it 500 bhp or 0 bhp!
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: kj16v]
#1528550
06/03/2015 15:51
06/03/2015 15:51
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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I don't really consider there to be such a thing as a "best state of tune." You can make an expensive, unreliable 300 bhp, or a good value, reliable 400 bhp. Also 300 bhp isn't always 300 bhp: 300 is the magic number that everyone wants to break, but a lot of Coupe owners want to do it on the cheap; stock pistons (actually, 300 is fine for 20VT pistons), stock exhaust system, tiny turbo. So in order to save the engine, the torque has to be wound back. The result is, yeah, it makes 300, 340 or whatever, but it's slow as because it doesn't have the torque to really make it move. 'Course, nobody knows that because practically every modded 20VT on here has exactly the same mods and tuning! So I think the best state of tune is the best that you can afford and what's most suitable for your intended use - be it 500 bhp or 0 bhp! What would be your redommended harware for 300bhp? I said 300bhp as it puts you just out of reach of various BMWs, Subaru's and Evos etc. Ive gone well beyond 300bhp with past motors but would like to keep this one relatively sane.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1528577
06/03/2015 21:00
06/03/2015 21:00
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metalste
Unregistered
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metalste
Unregistered
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I've not much experience, in fact my coupe is the most powerful car I've driven at 260 bhp but I'd say stage 1 remap is the best state of tune. Relatively inexpensive and not too demanding on components.
You can get 260/265 for a couple hundred pounds but for 300bhp your talking a good £1200+.
If your anything like me you'll have a list of other jobs you'll want to do on your coupe so why not spend the extra on those jobs?
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1528590
06/03/2015 23:16
06/03/2015 23:16
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Thanks chaps. The temptation of chasing the ponies is there. Hybrid turbo and will cost around 150 quid for me and I have plenty of piping and silicon for an FMIC which range from 25-75 quid second hand but I think I'll just go for the live map and get a few jobs done on it. Thanks for the input fellas.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Nigel]
#1528790
08/03/2015 20:56
08/03/2015 20:56
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576 Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
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Having had several coupes ranging from standard to utterly berserk, I would say the best state of tune is my theoretical "stage 0.5"
This is a pretty much bog-standard car, with new (standard) suspension, serviced brakes with good quality pads, a strut brace and a live map - that's it
Ok, it might be worth doing the fuel pump "live feed" mod as a precaution, but for a performance versus cost calculation, keep it very close to standard and it'll be an epic drive
yup spot on
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Nigel]
#1528868
09/03/2015 14:51
09/03/2015 14:51
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290 Staffs
Dazvr6
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290
Staffs
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Having had several coupes ranging from standard to utterly berserk, I would say the best state of tune is my theoretical "stage 0.5"
This is a pretty much bog-standard car, with new (standard) suspension, serviced brakes with good quality pads, a strut brace and a live map - that's it
Ok, it might be worth doing the fuel pump "live feed" mod as a precaution, but for a performance versus cost calculation, keep it very close to standard and it'll be an epic drive
This plus a better exhaust. At least a back box to release the noise of the 5 pot!
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Nigel]
#1528916
09/03/2015 20:12
09/03/2015 20:12
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chipped
Unregistered
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chipped
Unregistered
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Having had several coupes ranging from standard to utterly berserk, I would say the best state of tune is my theoretical "stage 0.5"
This is a pretty much bog-standard car, with new (standard) suspension, serviced brakes with good quality pads, a strut brace and a live map - that's it
Ok, it might be worth doing the fuel pump "live feed" mod as a precaution, but for a performance versus cost calculation, keep it very close to standard and it'll be an epic drive
Yup.Mine has a blue flame stainless exhaust with a race cat as well. Great car.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Nigel]
#1534141
16/04/2015 22:00
16/04/2015 22:00
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466 Kent
Submariner
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
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Having had several coupes ranging from standard to utterly berserk, I would say the best state of tune is my theoretical "stage 0.5"
This is a pretty much bog-standard car, with new (standard) suspension, serviced brakes with good quality pads, a strut brace and a live map - that's it
Ok, it might be worth doing the fuel pump "live feed" mod as a precaution, but for a performance versus cost calculation, keep it very close to standard and it'll be an epic drive
yup but add a Gtec1, mechanical boost valve and an exhaust..sorted.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534145
16/04/2015 22:08
16/04/2015 22:08
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Little change of plan. Any idea what bhp I'll be looking at with a live map with the following done....
Fuel pump wiring mod Evo 6 FMIC Powerflow cat back (looks around 3" and starts about a foot away from turbo) K&N panel filter.
Going to see Flea Saturday. Won't have time to dyno but would be happy if I could break 270 bhp. Going on rollers 20th May.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534146
16/04/2015 22:11
16/04/2015 22:11
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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300 bhp = quick car
But exist also turns!
So, in my opinion, after 80bhp upgrade, you will need drilled disc, new brake pads (DS2500 or ebc yellow, 150 gbp for a set), new brake hose (80 gbp), new springs (I remember 150 gbp from FCSS), and rebuilt shocks. And probably 17 inch alloys.
Alhough I will make half the job. Power is nothing without control.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534204
17/04/2015 11:13
17/04/2015 11:13
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metalste
Unregistered
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metalste
Unregistered
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: dw89]
#1534238
17/04/2015 20:34
17/04/2015 20:34
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
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Nigel, how would the Stage 0.5 coupe compare to a 400bhp coupe in the real world? As I have been driving something similar with a superspool and remap, but the turbo I think is on the way out, so was looking at the next step. The car used to be a daily, but at the moment is only used on weekends. I have been looking at the new(ish) Garrett gtx turbo range (gtx2860/63). The difference between 200-odd and 400-odd bhp can only be experienced. Not only the speed, but the way it accelerates at various points in the rpm range. Very different beasts. Basically, you'll think your car is fast - until you've you've experienced 400+ bhp done properly! Not compromised by holding back torque in order to protect stock pistons, or anything like that. You're very close to me in Uxbridge. Why not pop over and I'll take you for a spin in mine
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: dw89]
#1534260
18/04/2015 00:05
18/04/2015 00:05
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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Nigel, how would the Stage 0.5 coupe compare to a 400bhp coupe in the real world? As I have been driving something similar with a superspool and remap, but the turbo I think is on the way out, so was looking at the next step. The car used to be a daily, but at the moment is only used on weekends. I have been looking at the new(ish) Garrett gtx turbo range (gtx2860/63). I've seen your coupe a couple of times because I'm only down the road in Windsor looks nice though.
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534265
18/04/2015 00:34
18/04/2015 00:34
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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The only thing with the standard internals at that power is the mapping is very gentle and power is gradual. As we have seen with the hard hitting turbos which give a shed load of hp and torque as soon as possible then the rods start to bend or the Pistons lands crack.
Also depends on what you use the coupe for? around town with the odd squirt or 10-15 laps at a time on regular track days.
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534267
18/04/2015 01:10
18/04/2015 01:10
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Slugcatcher1
Unregistered
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Slugcatcher1
Unregistered
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Having read other threads on this subject I'd decided to just leave mine standard (but well sorted). Might be changing my mind now after reading this thread and speaking to JBT.
The last owner added a 3" exhaust and a K&N cone filter but left it with a standard map - I've never liked the whoosh sound of the filter to be honest. Left my Coupe with JBT today for a bit of an overhaul and we got talking about the set up. Reckon I either need it taking totally back to standard, or take advantage of the exhaust and filter and go for the 0.5 stage as mentioned. Might call the insurance company tomorrow...
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534270
18/04/2015 01:28
18/04/2015 01:28
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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Having read other threads on this subject I'd decided to just leave mine standard (but well sorted). Might be changing my mind now after reading this thread and speaking to JBT.
The last owner added a 3" exhaust and a K&N cone filter but left it with a standard map - I've never liked the whoosh sound of the filter to be honest. Left my Coupe with JBT today for a bit of an overhaul and we got talking about the set up. Reckon I either need it taking totally back to standard, or take advantage of the exhaust and filter and go for the 0.5 stage as mentioned. Might call the insurance company tomorrow... Go back to a standard air box and a k&n pannel filter it will still breath nicely but get rid of the noise
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534278
18/04/2015 07:26
18/04/2015 07:26
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go_fast_Chris
Unregistered
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go_fast_Chris
Unregistered
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i have the apexi cone filter on.... for the exact same reason... i got my coupe with the K & N induction kit on it and driving it home the woosh noise got a little annoying. so the third day i had her i replaced it with the Apexi cone filter... £110 from ebay, i then stopped the woosh noise right away.
at the same time i also put a forge dump valve on to swap out the worn plastic one.
the other noise that was a bit loud was the powerflow exhaust.... so a visit to flea to make a custome stainless exhaust sorted that problem out... i have 3 inch complete system but with silencers in it to calm down the noise a bit, but still give me performance.
i should have some pictures of it on my facebook photo albums if you wanted to see things.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: knight7660]
#1534294
18/04/2015 10:46
18/04/2015 10:46
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 242 Slough, UK
dw89
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 242
Slough, UK
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The difference between 200-odd and 400-odd bhp can only be experienced. Not only the speed, but the way it accelerates at various points in the rpm range. Very different beasts. Basically, you'll think your car is fast - until you've you've experienced 400+ bhp done properly! Not compromised by holding back torque in order to protect stock pistons, or anything like that. You're very close to me in Uxbridge. Why not pop over and I'll take you for a spin in mine Thanks kj,I might take you up on that offer.
I've seen your coupe a couple of times because I'm only down the road in Windsor looks nice though.
Thanks, but the paintwork has seen better days. Hopefully I will sort out the mechanicals Thos year, and respray next.
~ LE112 ~
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ioksotot]
#1534304
18/04/2015 13:47
18/04/2015 13:47
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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As others have said, the best thing you will ever do is get a live map by Flea, you won't believe the difference it makes to the car even in standard form. Leighton is working his magic on it as I type this. Looking forward to picking it up in an hour or so. Bonus is I've got a nice little Clio sport to run around in. Been a while since i drove one and forgot how much fun they were.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: dw89]
#1534313
18/04/2015 16:10
18/04/2015 16:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Nigel, how would the Stage 0.5 coupe compare to a 400bhp coupe in the real world? As I have been driving something similar with a superspool and remap, but the turbo I think is on the way out, so was looking at the next step. The car used to be a daily, but at the moment is only used on weekends. I have been looking at the new(ish) Garrett gtx turbo range (gtx2860/63). I've always said that a 280-300bhp Coupe will be 90% as quick along a nice B road as a 450bhp Coupe. In fact on some B roads (bumpy and very twisty) the lower-powered car could even be faster, due to an early spool-up and more compliant suspension. However, once you get onto a road that allows a big-power Coupe to be let off the leash, the difference is night and day. Its massively entertaining and supremely addictive. The way that VERY illegal speeds can be reached in a few seconds gives me a smile every time. I took mine out today (into Motormech for a bit of gearbox and suspension work, as well as fitting my modified hubs for the floating brake discs) - ran it through to the rev limiter in a couple of gears and found myself chuckling at the absurdity of the speeds it can get to TBH, for an everyday car, that's going to be used for the daily commute, you can't beat standard, plus a handful of choice mods:- Remap Strut brace Decent brakes Decent tyres Nice exhaust With that lot, you'll have a 250+ bhp car, that will cost very modest money, be ultra-reliable (with the right maintenance) and will stop and steer nicely too However, once you've experienced how well the Coupe responds to a few gentle mods, its very difficult not to carry on.... and on.... and on, ad infinitum, which is how you end up with a 450+ bhp monster
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