I'm thinking of looking into an alternative EBV to the standard one, and would like to gauge interest before I invest time and money into this.

The key benefit of the standard EBV is that if the ECU detects a problem (e.g. charge temps too high, or knocking even with ignition backed off) it will pull back the boost thus protecting your engine.

The key drawbacks of the EBV are that it allows some escape of boost and so prevents optimum spoolup, and its boost control on modified cars is often not great and tends to get worse the more the car is modified

Would there be any interest in an alternative electronic boost controller that would plug into the standard loom, and would overcome the drawbacks of the EBV? I guess the price point would be less than it costs to buy a decent boost controller (i.e. less than £100 I guess).

Cheers
John

I suppose there will be interest!
Out of curiosity, are you talking about a whole package (i.e. electronics + solenoid) or a different solenoid only?
Have you got something in mind?

cheers

I'm talking electronics+solenoid but without any display gubbins.
I have a couple of ideas but I need to work out how well they will work with the ECU signal (as ultimately that has to be used for this to be of any benefit)

Surely this is not for your car John ?

So you would still rely on the ECU to control the boost then John ?
I thought it was the ECU that was the limiting factor in the standard boost control, will your box of tricks be adjustable so you can set your own desired level of boost or will it just work at the pressure programed on the chip ?

Well I'm looking at this in conjunction with looking at the ECU, so I would envisage the solution would work as per the ECU defined boost map initially (only of course better boost control), or else it can be switched to base boost.

My ECU gladly seem to allow 1.4bar at times (V-Power Times). I'll be happy to buy one John.
Not that I suffer much from my EBV, it's just the work of cleaning it now and then... (when it starts to hesitate)

I've just baught one of these - waiting for it to arive:

http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/universal/ebcs.htm

Was that the kind of thing you meant, or do I have the wrong idea?

Yup something like that but calibrated to the ECU (which I don't think the Perrin one is). That is commonly used as part of Motec setups actually

Actually I think I know someone with a Perrin unit so will give it a whirl. I can always build any additional electronics I need on top of that platform.

I've looked into this quite a bit. There are several technical difficulties not least of which is that you will have to read from the ECU, interpret and write out an alternative boost control programme , all in the time that it takes for a car to go on/off boost, i.e microseconds.

Personally I dont think its possible, I'm not even sure why you would want to do it, given that the MAF based boost circuit is a bit, well crap, anyway for the main reason that it has no idea at anyone time what the boost level actually is. You really need MAP, and preferably load and TPS based sensing for proper boost control.

I think that the boost circuit isn't as bad as you think, just that it is subject to compromises of the pierberg valve.
I would hazard a bet that at least half the cars that have boost-related engine failures (overheating/melted pistons/detting) might have been saved by the ECU cutting back the boost. I've also never liked the idea cutting off all the failsafe functions the ECU has to protect the engine.
It's not like I need it myself as I already have pretty accurate load and gear based boost control

Second that John!
My set up (EBV, V-Power, Novitec) is working perfectly when it's cleaned up and serviced properly.
As I said I get a stable 1.4bar in cold weather, with 99octane.
On the other hand, driving across hot Europe this summer on 95octane had the ECU lower max to 0,7bar! Needless to say I'm glad I wasn't using any PRV, my pistons may have melted.

I'm running on a standard ECU. I'm going to give the Perrin a go on a rolling road in the not to distant future. Don't see how it could be much diffrent to the existing valve, appart from being more responsive, and able to cope with higher boost. Having said that the ECU may not like it - we'll see.
Apparently the VAG 1.8T lot switch EBV's quite a lot to units with diffrent response speeds.

I'll let people know how it goes.

I said the above, as the EBV is just an on/off valve which the ecu rapidly cycles to try and set boost levels - is this correct?

I think it will work, it's just a question of whether it will give you the same boost level as stock or you will suddenly be running 1.5 bar or something like that.

John

how the standard EBV works and the electronics that
drive it :

http://www.bugone.co.uk/fiat/boost_analysis.htm

Cheers Pistole

Just fitted my Perrin EBCS and i'm impresssed. Seems a little more responsive when coming onto boost now, the boost seems a bit more stable than with the OE item.

for the first couple of runs, I got a couple of nasty 1.5 bar boost spikes, but the ECU seems to have adjusted pretty quickly, and its working fine now.

The manual seems to sugest using 2 of the ports, and using a t peice conector.

I checked what happend with the air flow on the stock item, and the new Perrin Item, and I think this is the correct way to rig it:

Perrin port 1 --> blue pipe
Perrin Port 2 --> the pipe to the turbo intake
Perrin Port 3 --> red pipe

Installed:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/paddy0d/26-09-06_1234.jpg

John, it looks like you can rig it up diffrent ways for fast interuption type response (whatever that is ) and for external wastegates. So that side of things may be of more use to you guys with aftermarket ECU's and mad Turbo's

A couple of pages from the manual that may be of intrest:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/paddy0d/IMG_2120.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/paddy0d/IMG_2123.jpg

looks good !!

Is it holding the same boost as the standard EBV then?
Does it hold boost better at the top end? (I guess this will also depend what the map is like on the ECU)

So you still have to stick with the premapped max boost or could you adjust it to say 1.1-1.2 max boost?

So far as I can tell, its exactly the same boost levels as before. It just seems to get there more smothly, and fluctuate less when holding boost.

I wonder if at higher boost presures the OE item gets less responsive and sticks a bit?

Well there are two solutions - either get the chip with a different boost map (I'm sure GrahamL could do something) or manipulate the signal which will in turn affect the boost.

Just to add to this one if anybody else rigs one up and doesn't have colours on the pipes:

port 1 goes to the turbo wastegate actuator
port 2 goes to the vacume pipe that is attached to the turbo intake pipe
port 3 goes to the pipe that is attached to the side of the turbo compressor housing.

you had any more 1.5bar spikes paddy ?

Nope - only did it whilst the ECU was learning it seems. Just nice stable boost. Had a wastege gate fail recently, and the car did the same thing with the replacement waste gate. After a couple of runs it was all back to normal. Its a good product IMHO. Having said that it seems the GM EBV might be a good and cheaper option too

Have to confirm that the GM EBV is really an alternative to the OE EBV. Boost is exactly how it should be, without any boost spikes. And I almost forgot how smooth it's to drive with a proper boost control instead of using a PRV.

Quick but important note - IF YOU'VE JUST CHANGED FROM A PRV TO AND EBV PLS RESET YOUR ECU.

I forgot and the fuelling went squiffy

FYI - here's another solenoid you can use. Its very similar to the perrin but w/o the daft markup its 55 yankee dollar*.

store

And this direct link might work...

product link worky?

All these one's should be close to plug and play with the Pierburg (they will flow differently but duty cycles is pretty universal).

However, can't help but think that the boost take off in the intake is not the best place - nearer the compressor wheel would give it better control, no?

ps) * Mr Dom is a nice chap and postage is cheap (but rather slow)

how do u reset the ecu, do u just disconnect the battery for half an hour

There must be a better way.. but yes