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Re: in or out
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1564162
21/02/2016 20:17
21/02/2016 20:17
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
OP
Club Member 857
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OP
Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095
highlands
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What ever happens regarding Europe, I would put money on that Scotland would not leave the Union more so now for obvious reasons, referendum or not. Perhaps as a proud Scotsman I care what's happening to my part of the country. I've actually traveled all over the UK in my time, both business & pleasure & mostly liked what I came across. The natives were very friendly. This country that we all live in is still an interesting wee bit of land to do our thing on....We have but a short time to make our own mark on things.
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564169
21/02/2016 21:01
21/02/2016 21:01
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glenn1960
Unregistered
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glenn1960
Unregistered
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Re: in or out
[Re: ]
#1564178
21/02/2016 21:52
21/02/2016 21:52
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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That reasoning for leaving seems pretty prevalent.
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Re: in or out
[Re: charlie_croker]
#1564184
21/02/2016 22:41
21/02/2016 22:41
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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The EU was originally formed to prevent war between France and Germany which had been the cause of two really rather large wars...... Charlie, I forgot the way you like to debate. Mind, I couldn't see anything on that link which stated that the idea was to prevent any further wars between "France and Germany", which apparently was the cause of "two really rather large wars". I was under the impression that WW2 started with the German Invasion of Poland in Sept 39. Not as the result of hostilities between France and Germany.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564193
21/02/2016 23:54
21/02/2016 23:54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611 Aberdeenshire,Scotland
Azzura
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611
Aberdeenshire,Scotland
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It's funny how a lot of people like to think of the Fiat Coupe as a little Ferrari, and if the UK leaves the EU and Fiat ever replace the Coupe, we will all have to pay Ferrari prices to buy it. Strange how quickly people forget about import taxes, passport regulations and visas, ease of travel etc when you take their absence for granted. Even the cost of buying little things from the EU will rocket once HMRC add on import tax and postage costs like they do for stuff sourced in the US. There are also currently 5 million Brits living abroad. Where do we put them all if the countries they live in decide to send them back?
Yesterday Sprint Blue 20VT,today Denim Blue TT225
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Re: in or out
[Re: bezzer]
#1564206
22/02/2016 09:26
22/02/2016 09:26
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650 Dark side of the Moon
H_R
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
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In for me.
The fact Gove is in the 'out' camp cemented my decision!
Any chance of a Mod adding a Poll to this thread? I did think that Gove may sour some people's thoughts to join the out camp! But then your friendly clown Borris may of slightly balanced that out? Maybe?
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Re: in or out
[Re: Cooperman]
#1564207
22/02/2016 09:37
22/02/2016 09:37
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650 Dark side of the Moon
H_R
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
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yes please to passport controls and visas a an Aussie style points system, as for import taxes I don't recall that being a barrier to trade pre EU membership. It was a factor that was taken into consideration when you bought something just like the old purchase tax system. Your right didn't there used to be the commonwealth before Euro trade was sorted as I remember it used to cost more to send a letter to Sweden Than to france/ mainland Europe as Sweden were not a member So there will not be any significant trade issues if we are out as has been stated on the news, the Germans will still want to sell us their bmw's, mercs, audi's etc. The French their peugeots citroens renault's and nuclear energy Italy fiats ferraris Alfa's electrical items etc. Etc. The whole trade thing is scaremongering people/ businesses will still be able to negotiate a decent deal
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564209
22/02/2016 10:15
22/02/2016 10:15
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568
Berlin
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564213
22/02/2016 10:25
22/02/2016 10:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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This thread proves what frustrates me about this issue: everybody is bandying around "facts" and figures and general "reckons", but none of us has any real, unbiased data to work with. Anyone who supplies figures on "how much the EU costs UK taxpayers" will have an agenda and exagerrate the costs, whilst writing down the benefits. Conversely, the In campaign will include intangible benefits to make the cost look lower.
The bottom line is that we don't know. None of us. The decision will be taken on guesses and how people feel, rather than evidence.
I think the Out campaign will win and we will then reap what we have (un)sown. There will doubtless be costs to the UK economy as a result of leaving; our European trading partners will still want to sell to us, but will they want to buy from us as much? Will a "liberated" UK be able to make better deals with other markets? Selling "security" technology to dodgy regimes with no pesky EU interference. Or will we be begging for crumbs at the large trading blocs' tables? Again, I don't know the answer (and nor does anyone, whatever they tell you).
Being a natural pessimist, I believe the majority of people in the UK will vote to leave the EU because of immigration. We are an island race, and not a very nice one, looking at our history. We've never bought into the "greater Europe" ideal, which is not surprising, because we aren't a part of it.
What CharlieCroker said above is largely true: France and Germany are the power behind the EU, on the basis that they have been locked in a post-WWII embrace to prevent another conflict between them. They (and the other main nations except Spain) believe in "closer European Union" as an ideal to avoid conflict and I believe that we Brits don't get that in the same way, because our experience of the war was so different (i.e. our territory wasn't invaded).
Because I find many of the Out campaigners so nauseating, (George Galloway, Theresa May and Nigel Farage on the same platform...?), I would find it hard to vote that way, but the In campaign scarcely seems to exist in the media, which is another issue: "staying in, as we are, steady-as-she-goes" is not a newsworthy story, whereas "storming out" sells papers or clicks.
One last ramble: If the UK does vote to leave the EU, that will be it. There won't be another chance to rejoin. We'd best hope the bed we have made is comfortable, because we'll be lying on it forever.
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Re: in or out
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1564217
22/02/2016 10:47
22/02/2016 10:47
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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Because I find many of the Out campaigners so nauseating, (George Galloway, Theresa May and Nigel Farage on the same platform...?) Jim, from the list I've seen regarding Tory MPs, Theresa May is in the 'In' camp. Not that it makes her any less nauseating.
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: in or out
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1564219
22/02/2016 10:51
22/02/2016 10:51
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,863 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,863
Auld Reekie
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The bottom line is that we don't know. None of us. The decision will be taken on guesses and how people feel, rather than evidence.
Agreed, and this could be as good a reason as any to vote out as some may say a lack of knowledge in the smaller environment of the UK is easier to cope with than the murky distance of Brussels administration. Also true about making the bed and lying in it but as I understand it that works both ways!
Last edited by Edinburgh; 22/02/2016 10:52. Reason: withdrew May and Galloway comment
BumbleBee carer
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564223
22/02/2016 10:57
22/02/2016 10:57
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650 Dark side of the Moon
H_R
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
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Your Right Jim! But we are not able to get sufficiently acceptable terms as Cameron has just demonstrated, so its never going to get much better! We are a magnet to the eu migrants that want to work as much as the ones that don't want to, but its the ones that don't want to that spoil it, even though i'm sure there are more Brits that don't want to work than eu migrants
For me in the jobs market in the UK its a race to the bottom, the businesses are taking total advantage of the situation whilst the true cost of living just keeps going up!
How can it be right that people can go to work and still not earn enough to live, with the government then having to subsidise family income to make it bearable!
The employment market has just become too greedy with their profits and tax avoidance! thats where the real issue is, but the wages are being driven down by the "supply and demand" of a desperate workforce due to the competitiveness of the employees coming from poorer countries and wondering what we are all moaning about. Remember not all of them are investing in this country, so its sustainable for a few years whilst the money is sent back to their country to pay of the mortgage that is possibly a fraction of ours so they will go back being very comfortable when the bubble burst's whilst we will be left to pick up the austerity again!
Not all migrants are bad but in my opinion its not good for the unskilled labour market, unless you own a business that employs unskilled!
A few weeks ago there was a guy on the radio that stated back in the 70's that the No campaign had predicted all the issues and got everything pretty much correct where the yes was way of the mark! possibly true, is history going to repeat itself?
What happened in history to change the stay at home parent to now, where both parents need to work unless one has a very well paid job! what caused that transition? i honestly don't know? was that anything to do with the eu?
If im honest im really uncertain which is best but sometimes continuing with the status quo is not always the best option!
Last edited by H_R; 22/02/2016 11:02.
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564244
22/02/2016 12:25
22/02/2016 12:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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I saw an alleged quote from Boris Johnson yesterday, saying that he is a fervent European, but loathes what the EU has become. There's a lot of sympathy for that view, too. ...some people are voting for anything but the status quo in the hope that it will fix something. A very pertinent phrase, MRS!
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564248
22/02/2016 12:49
22/02/2016 12:49
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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I'm struggling with the Importance of Boris.
He's had two terms at London Mayor and so far his greatest hits are the world's most expensive and least-used chair lift, multi-million pound state-funding for his friends' pet-projects - overdesigned buses and pretty bridges, and the selling of public space to private foreign investment. He's done jack-all, except perpetuate this bumbly, dithery facade. The bloke's been a traitor to the city, can't imagine what he'd do for the country.
Last edited by FreakinFreak; 22/02/2016 12:50. Reason: apostrophe
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564249
22/02/2016 12:50
22/02/2016 12:50
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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From a purely personal point of view I need a few questions answered as a Brit living in France.
I had worked in the uk for over 31 years and at the moment I will be able to draw full basic uk state pension when I am of retirement age. Will that stay the same? Or will the government pull the rug on expats at some point?
Could France chuck me out and confiscate my assets?
I am thinking about taken French citizenship in order to cushion any future problems.
Am I worrying to much?
Will my air and ferrie costs go up?
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Re: in or out
[Re: jimboy]
#1564255
22/02/2016 13:49
22/02/2016 13:49
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Joe, I think you're right to stay informed, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some minor penalising of ex-pats as a political gesture, if the UK leaves the EU. However, I'd be surprised if all of the reciprocal arrangements are abandoned. I'd better look at the small print myself, as I paid into the URSSAF pot for almost 20 years! Not sure what it'll mean for my business, either... Cheap flights could be at an end if the EU decides to tax flights to/from non-EU destinations. However, Ryanair (EU) flies to Turkey, etc...
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