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Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack #1545812
30/07/2015 13:37
30/07/2015 13:37
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
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Cooperman  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
I am sure you will have seen the news in recent weeks but after having to suffer weeks of the knock on effects on my local roads I have just about had enough. We need a better solution than using the M20 as a car park and soon. Large sections of roads around the area become grid locked as people search for alternate routes and the big holiday weekend just gone was awful.
Whether it's the French unions or refugee incursions the effect is the same but that's another subject!


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545817
30/07/2015 16:56
30/07/2015 16:56
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
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Close the tunnel for a few years. Problem solved!



Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545830
30/07/2015 19:08
30/07/2015 19:08
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
H_R Offline
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Dark side of the Moon
I Agree with Magooagain! just need to close the tunnel and divert ferries to belgium or Holland for now at least!

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: magooagain] #1545863
31/07/2015 08:44
31/07/2015 08:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
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Mark_S Offline
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Haslemere, Surrey
Originally Posted By: magooagain
Close the tunnel for a few years. Problem solved!


I like your thinking smile


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545866
31/07/2015 09:21
31/07/2015 09:21
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
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Cooperman  Offline OP
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Kent, South East
Well closing the tunnel is never going to happen and I doubt diverting the ferries would do little more than moving the problem 100 miles up the road.
There has been some suggestion of using MOD land instead which may be possible but I doubt it will be a quick fix.
Operation stack will continue to cost us in terms of lost business and delays to both goods, services and the knock on effect on local roads means the effects radiate out further than people think. I was trying to get to Ashford and got trapped on a country lane after two Hungarian HGV's got stuck trying to avoid the queues, 2 hours wasted and another meeting missed smile


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545872
31/07/2015 10:40
31/07/2015 10:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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I really sympathise, cooperman. Sadly, it's a situation that has been ignored or swept under the carpet by anyone not directly affected. Part of the problem is the desperation of the migrants; if you are determined and resourceful enough to make it to Calais from North Africa (for example) with nothing - to avoid being murdered in your home country, you really aren't going to give a damn about a few border security people saying "Hey, you can't come in..."
I'd like to see some figures on the growth in road haulage through the UK ports in the last 15 years...

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545879
31/07/2015 13:04
31/07/2015 13:04
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Yup - you have my full sympathy too. It's a proper mess that, ultimately I guess, is the result of ill thought-out policy in the Middle East.

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545882
31/07/2015 14:22
31/07/2015 14:22
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,927
The Faringdon Folly
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oxfordSteve Offline
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The Faringdon Folly
I don't understand why the French authorities don't just put them all on a bus, drive it onto one of the shuttle's and let us sort it out.

They are clearly our problem, not France's as this is where they are aiming for.

If I was mayor of Calais, I'd have done it months or years ago.




Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545886
31/07/2015 15:26
31/07/2015 15:26

G
glenn1960
Unregistered
glenn1960
Unregistered
G



The people coming from Sudan, Nigeria and Somalia are our problem because.......?

I don't know why the French authorities don't just put them on a boat [ a very large one ] , turn left out of the harbour , head west a few hundred miles and then turn south and keep going until you arrive back in warmer climes .

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545887
31/07/2015 15:56
31/07/2015 15:56

G
glenn1960
Unregistered
glenn1960
Unregistered
G



Do P&O do a Calais to Cape Town service ?

Anyone who thinks this country needs another 3,500 here to pimp off the system, needs to think again. I quite like the idea of living in some exotic hotspot , but it won't do me any good camping out on their doorstep, gagging to get in. Even with trying to explain that Mr Cameron has made it very hard to survive in the UK with his austerity measures, I don't think they would listen. smile. Maybe I should tell the Turkish authorities next month that I fancy staying there indefinitely and see how they take that news. redcard

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545888
31/07/2015 16:00
31/07/2015 16:00
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,927
The Faringdon Folly
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oxfordSteve Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,927
The Faringdon Folly
The are clearly more our problem than France's, otherwise they'd not be trying to break into lorries and trains to get over here.

It must be costing the French a fortune to police or, so why wouldn't they just was their hands of the while mess and bus them over? Far cheaper than a boat to anywhere...m




Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545892
31/07/2015 16:49
31/07/2015 16:49

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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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I believe the problem belongs to the EU, we're just one of the few richest EU countries with the softest policies.
The way to stop economic migrants (if they were just avoiding death then Italy and Greece would be far enough to run, France certainly would be) is to do away with a few more of the benefits. The conservatives have already started, it's only a few extra changes and the UK won't be so attractive.

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545894
31/07/2015 17:27
31/07/2015 17:27
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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Jimbo Offline
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Gone
My wife spent the first 15 years of her life as a refugee. 8 years in an Iraqi prison camp and 7 years in an Iranian refugee camp, I won't bore you with the details of what life is like in those camps and how many members of her family didn't make it through the trauma.

Her life started at age 15 in Sweden, she now speaks 6 languages, has a degree in medical engineering and works bloody hard.

These refugees aren't bad people, please don't think the desperation they are showing to get to the UK is get on a benefits system. They might just want a chance at a life worth living.

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: ] #1545895
31/07/2015 17:52
31/07/2015 17:52

G
glenn1960
Unregistered
glenn1960
Unregistered
G



Originally Posted By: Big_Muzzie
I believe the problem belongs to the EU, we're just one of the few richest EU countries with the softest policies.
The way to stop economic migrants (if they were just avoiding death then Italy and Greece would be far enough to run, France certainly would be) is to do away with a few more of the benefits. The conservatives have already started, it's only a few extra changes and the UK won't be so attractive.


or just get the hell out of Europe :), get Clarkson elected as PM, Nigel Farage as his deputy, then we can do what we like without European intervention laugh laugh [ then the ports would really be busy !! ]

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Jimbo] #1545898
31/07/2015 18:44
31/07/2015 18:44

P
proccy
Unregistered
proccy
Unregistered
P



Originally Posted By: Jimbo


These refugees aren't bad people, please don't think the desperation they are showing to get to the UK is get on a benefits system. They might just want a chance at a life worth living.


Sorry to hear of your wife's troubles Jimbo and glad to see she's having a good life now.

However, the vast majority of the refugees haven't faced that and like Muzzie says the idea of the European Union is that they take refuge in the first country they come to. they choose to travel through Europe to get here because of the free living they believe we'll give them - and it has to stop, we can't afford to lose either the money or the jobs - this issue should be addressed by all of the EU not just France and England

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: ] #1545901
31/07/2015 19:11
31/07/2015 19:11
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt Offline
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State of Essex .
Originally Posted By: glenn1960
Do P&O do a Calais to Cape Town service ?

Anyone who thinks this country needs another 3,500 here to pimp off the system, needs to think again. I quite like the idea of living in some exotic hotspot , but it won't do me any good camping out on their doorstep, gagging to get in. Even with trying to explain that Mr Cameron has made it very hard to survive in the UK with his austerity measures, I don't think they would listen. smile. Maybe I should tell the Turkish authorities next month that I fancy staying there indefinitely and see how they take that news. redcard

I wish it was only 3500 people . When the 3500 make it across there will be another 3500 filling the space in the jungle . Its not our problem its France who should be sorting this out and handing them back to Italy ,Greece or turkey .


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545902
31/07/2015 20:18
31/07/2015 20:18

G
glenn1960
Unregistered
glenn1960
Unregistered
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Cameron's sorted it all out, we're sending some sniffer dogs to France and some more fencing...unbelievable !

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545949
01/08/2015 14:45
01/08/2015 14:45
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
Cooperman  Offline OP
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My job on the forum

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Never thought I would be agreeing with Eamon Holmes but putting up electric fences around the euro tunnel facility may be a solution!


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545951
01/08/2015 15:00
01/08/2015 15:00
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,520
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Posts: 21,520
Aldershot
Let's not forget that it's not just the unfortunate migrants causing these problems, but also striking seamen from a militant union blocking the roads leading to the ferry terminals in Calais.

Add some French farmers stopping foreign trucks they take a dislike to and/or barricading roads and a jolly good time is had by all.



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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545962
01/08/2015 19:49
01/08/2015 19:49
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
Cooperman  Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
My job on the forum

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Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Very true about the local farmers and dock workers, unions etc, we were stuck behind roadblockssome years back trying to get home and the French police did bugger all to break it up or move them on. They seem equally impotent now!


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545976
01/08/2015 22:40
01/08/2015 22:40

B
Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
B



France never had thatcher and hence their unions still pull.some serious weight.

jimbo, I have no issue with immigration / emmigration it's natural and the UK would be missing many doctors yet have too many trades folk (they've all gone to Australia) which is how it should work. The issue is the floods of ill informed people that think the place is paved with gold.
Next time you're in the UK come to Bradford, you'll see what I mean.

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: ] #1545979
01/08/2015 23:10
01/08/2015 23:10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,069
South Cambs
B
Barmybob Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,069
South Cambs
Can't get all this "soft Touch" Britain nonsense.

The reason so many of them risk their lives to get to Britain is because they already speak ENGLISH. Most of the problem is our imperialistic past not the benefits system. We travelled the world and forced English upon the natives. When you are next on Holiday and get by perfectly without ever uttering a word of the language of your destination, you may like to realise just what that the negative aspect of that benefit may be.

So that's why they want to come to the UK - English, not benefits. The USA is having exactly the same issues, with south American migrants, at their borders.

It has also been shown that economically many of the EU migrants would actually be better off in say France or Germany, but if you don't speak the lingo you won't easily get a LEGAL job.


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Barmybob] #1545981
01/08/2015 23:36
01/08/2015 23:36
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt Offline
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State of Essex .
Originally Posted By: Barmybob
Can't get all this "soft Touch" Britain nonsense.

The reason so many of them risk their lives to get to Britain is because they already speak ENGLISH. Most of the problem is our imperialistic past not the benefits system. We travelled the world and forced English upon the natives. When you are next on Holiday and get by perfectly without ever uttering a word of the language of your destination, you may like to realise just what that the negative aspect of that benefit may be.

So that's why they want to come to the UK - English, not benefits. The USA is having exactly the same issues, with south American migrants, at their borders.

It has also been shown that economically many of the EU migrants would actually be better off in say France or Germany, but if you don't speak the lingo you won't easily get a LEGAL job.

Some of what you said is left wing spin . They risk their lives because they put themselves in danger . France is a beautiful country . You do know alot of these people are from Sudan, Eritrea and Somalia which the west has not interference in . How do you explain that . Or that their families have put up alot of money to get them to Calais . Why is it mainly single young men in their early twenties ?


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1545983
02/08/2015 00:05
02/08/2015 00:05
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,520
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
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Originally Posted By: robcoupe20vt
You do know alot of these people are from Sudan, Eritrea and Somalia which the west has not interference in . How do you explain that

English is the most commonly taught second language so is a logical choice for them.

European powers have interfered (as you put it) in the countries you mentioned.

Britain in Sudan in the 19th and 20th centuries ,although governed by Egypt which was at that time a British protectorate. became independent in 1956.

Italy in Eritrea until they were removed by the British in 1941, then annexed by Ethiopia prior to gaining independence in the late 20th centuary.

Italy, France and Britain in different regions of Somalia until late 20th century independence.


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: PeteP] #1545984
02/08/2015 01:33
02/08/2015 01:33
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt Offline
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Originally Posted By: PeteP
Originally Posted By: robcoupe20vt
You do know alot of these people are from Sudan, Eritrea and Somalia which the west has not interference in . How do you explain that

English is the most commonly taught second language so is a logical choice for them.

European powers have interfered (as you put it) in the countries you mentioned.

Britain in Sudan in the 19th and 20th centuries ,although governed by Egypt which was at that time a British protectorate. became independent in 1956.

Italy in Eritrea until they were removed by the British in 1941, then annexed by Ethiopia prior to gaining independence in the late 20th centuary.

Italy, France and Britain in different regions of Somalia until late 20th century independence.

Recently say in the last couple of generations .Running away from your country is not to solve its problems and if your a legitimate refugee you cant pick and choose what country you would like to live in .Its has to be the first safest country from your homeland Whats the point in foreign aid if they want to come here . Sky has been covering this much better than the BBC . i was watching tonight when they interviewed a women called Samara from Syria . She is seven months pregnant and will not stop untill she makes it to England . She says all she wants to do is work . How thats going to work then . Has she a job ,money ,housing and education . Its good she says she wants a job but in reality its not going to happen .


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1546007
02/08/2015 10:09
02/08/2015 10:09
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
Cooperman  Offline OP
Former Club Membership Secretary
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Posts: 1,306
Kent, South East
The EU needs to enforce the basis of claiming asylum within its borders with a claim being lodged in the first county that is arrived in or the claim not being legal. Illegals should be returned whilst legal claimants should be distributed amoungst all the EU member states including the UK with a limit on movement within it for a set period until their ability to work and support themselves is proven.
There needs to be a system that is seen to be fair or this free for all assault on the eurotunnel facility will continue. Speaking English should not be a reason to head to the UK as it is widely spoken within the EU as already pointed out.


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1546014
02/08/2015 11:32
02/08/2015 11:32
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Jim_Clennell Offline
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Oh FFS.

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1546016
02/08/2015 11:46
02/08/2015 11:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Jim_Clennell Offline
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Jim_Clennell  Offline
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The view on here that carries the most weight is Jimbo's. Someone actually knowledgeable about refugees and their lives. The problem for many comfortable little Englanders is their total inability to understand what it means to live in the conditions that most people who flee their countries have to endure.
If you could imagine what it was like to genuinely fear for your life and safety every day, you might appreciate why they would risk their lives to find any alternative. Of course some of them will believe that the UK is the best option, but if you look at the figures EU-wide for the number of refugees accepted, we aren't exactly at the top of the list. If we were dealing with the same scale of issue as Italy, I think we might have a better idea of how few people make it to Calais.

Robcoupe20VT - To accuse Bob of Left wing spin then say Sky offers better coverage seems to mean "coverage that better reflects my right-wing views". Try Al-Jazeera's coverage if you want another, often more balanced view.

Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1546018
02/08/2015 12:09
02/08/2015 12:09
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
The view on here that carries the most weight is Jimbo's. Someone actually knowledgeable about refugees and their lives. The problem for many comfortable little Englanders is their total inability to understand what it means to live in the conditions that most people who flee their countries have to endure.
If you could imagine what it was like to genuinely fear for your life and safety every day, you might appreciate why they would risk their lives to find any alternative. Of course some of them will believe that the UK is the best option, but if you look at the figures EU-wide for the number of refugees accepted, we aren't exactly at the top of the list. If we were dealing with the same scale of issue as Italy, I think we might have a better idea of how few people make it to Calais.

Robcoupe20VT - To accuse Bob of Left wing spin then say Sky offers better coverage seems to mean "coverage that better reflects my right-wing views". Try Al-Jazeera's coverage if you want another, often more balanced view.


Sky is neither left or right wing . Are you serious about Al-jazeera offering a more balanced view ? I get the point that they are fleeing civil war and certain death but the first safe country they reach should be the one they claim asylum . Jimbos has experienced a positive side of it but what about the negative side . More stain on housing ,nhs ,some will commit crime and eventually these people would like their families to be brought over . Have a look at wiki and see how many civil wars in the last 15 years . On the bbc this morning if a couple with a child claim asylum they get £135 per week plus a place to stay . I know somebody who lived in his car with his dogs for 6 months before the council could house him .He was born in the uk and so were his parents .


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Re: Channel tunnel traffic & operation stack [Re: Cooperman] #1546021
02/08/2015 12:39
02/08/2015 12:39
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,927
The Faringdon Folly
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oxfordSteve Offline
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Sky is neither left nor rightwing?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

That's a good one, are you here all week???




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