When I first bought my Sprinty coupe, back in 2003, it had worn-out Goodyear F1s on it, so I fitted some Toyo T1-Rs, on which I had heard good reports

Since then, I reckon I've probably bought about 25-30 pairs of T1-Rs and always been very pleased with the combination of grip, durability and price.

So, it was without blinking that I bought another set of four last month.... However, they have destroyed all of my very carefully considered handling improvements.

At first, I refused to believe it was the tyres, so in the last month or so, I've tried four different tracking settings (from parallel to -2mm) and four different camber settings (from -1 to -1.5). I've tried lots of different pressures and a few different damping settings and whilst I can feel differences, I still can't get back to the "planted" feel that I've enjoyed for so long

The car feels as though there's 10psi in all four tyres - all the precision has gone - I can't keep it in a straight line under power - I can't predict how it will behave in a bend and worst of all, I can't choose my line. Changes in direction at speed feel downright dangerous, with the car feeling like it has a hinge in the middle.

Weirdly, the grip is still there - in a constant-radius corner, when the load is stable, they feel just as good as normal

However, if you asked me to hit a drain cover on a fast (60+ mph) roundabout, I don't think I could, whereas before, I could have hit a pound coin - its truly awful

The only time I've had tyres this bad was when I fitted Toyo PX-4 - I could change lanes by using the throttle

I can only assume that Toyo have changed their construction methods, as the difference from the previous set is just amazing. Heck - I came third in my first TOTB using T1-Rs, while everyone else was on trackday tyres, so something MUST have changed

So - that's £360 down the drain - any recommendations? 215/40-17 or maybe 225/40-17 at a push

I swear by the F1 Eagle. I've had every version since GSD2s and they just keep getting better.
The latest asymmetric version is superb. Not the cheapest but you get what you pay for.

Strange I just fitted T1Rs and no issues here, what manufacturing date are yours?

date tyres made

Week 39, 2012

@ charlie, but what sort of power do you have?

@ Nigel, I agree with Rob in the fact you get what you pay for. I always thought you would have been the same in the thought process after all the mods and tinkering with your car, im sure I've even seen you post before "buy cheap, buy twice" which I totally agree with.

The Toyo are even in the mid range tyre not the premium. When your running good power like yourself, Rob or like I was you need to be in the premium range.

Continental sport contact 5p or Michelin pilot super sport are definitely in the top 3 tyres out at the minute plus I have heard very good reports about the tyre above mentioned by Rob.

Good luck with it all and let us know how you get on!

I think if you tried the Michelin Pilot Super Sports you wouldn't want anything else but I don't think they make them in the sizes you need unless you'd be happy going to a 45 profile.
It would certainly make things nicer ride wise.

Yes if 45 is not an issue, I personally would recommend the Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 2. Good wet and dry grip, comfy and I find it quite lasting. I use the coupe daily and have been to a couple of track days with it.

i am getting bad feedback off the tr1's changed the wishbones and drop links had the tracking done but .....i can drive in a straight line hit the white line and the car twitches the only difference is my tyres are about 3yrs old but have done hardly any mileage

For road use I would say Dunlop sport maxx. I had continental sport contact before and i really struggled to get traction when wet. At 70km/h i couldn't get traction in second gear,even in third i had problems.this with approx 300 hp.i changed to dunlop and now second gear traction problem is gone.i really love this tyres,altough i think there are chinese production series as there are some companies here in Belgium who sell complete sets( 4 wheels and 4 tyres)for the same money as when you buy only the tyres!my mate's BMW 318 worn them completely out on 8000km.they were worn out to the threat from inside to outside!

For road performance I cannot fault the Yokohama AD08, just fantastic.

Aren't they semi slick?

Interesting mine are week 22/2011 (though fitted last month by Event-Tyres), I am happy with mine, they felt better than the Pirellis I had before.

Maybe they changed the compound? It may be worth emailing Toyo.co.uk
Contact details for their opinion?

I've switched from Toyo's to Continental Sport Contact and they feel better to me, although i don't have the driving experience at speeds or tracks that you do Nigel. They're expensive but i get a healthy discount of a mate who's a Director there

Contis made a novice like me, feel like a pro on a wet Curborough.

On the road they are superb.

ad08's? Reasonable tread pattern and Full tread depth - I've gone through some pretty terrifying standing water at full pelt and they were fine. Certainly not as bad as cups or the barely legal ditch finders most people on the roads drive around with.

I'd not chance it in snow and ice, but thats just me, maybe they'd be okay. I've got a set of winters so never had chance to try.


I would say, regarding the t1-r, I've always felt they were terrible on 16's, just too floppy. Maybe they changed the design so that even the lower profile 17s now have an unacceptable amount of sidewall flex too?

Interesting development, or maybe its just something I've never checked before

Over the weekend, I played with tyre pressures - I started from the standard 39/32 and went for a drive. As expected, the car still felt horrible, so I returned to the garage to adjust.

However, the pressures had risen to 45/35 in the relatively short (but spirited) drive, so I dropped them to 39/32 and went for another drive - much better, but still not right. This morning, I lifted from full throttle and had to dab the brakes while on a very gentle left-hander - almost lost the back end through lift-off oversteer, whereas I've previously done the same many times on the same piece of road without drama.

The only difference with this set of tyres compared with all the other T1-Rs I've had is that these are nitrogen-filled (Kwik-fit used it and then tried to bill me for it - I refused to pay, but they declined to take it back.... )

I wonder if it makes a difference?

Might try dropping all the pressure out and re-filling with air

Either way, an email has been sent to Toyo to ask if there have been any changes in construction in the last year or so.

Are you going to look into some premium branded tyres?

Yes - current candidates are:-

Conti Sport contact 3
Conti Sport contact 5
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Yokohama AD08
Dunlop Sport Maxx RT

Some of these aren't available in my chosen size, so I might end up with the choice being made for me

I was just about to order a set of T1R's this morning after being told my supplier can get me a new set in 215-40-16 for £280.00 all in delivered. So thanks for posting this up

What to go for now after being in my dads 2.4l on the asymmetric 2's, and being blown away by the level of grip and cornering performance in the wet and dry i would have those tyres in a heart beat. But nobody can get me them in 16" at all without going to a 50 profile!

I'll wait to see what you go for Nigel and I'll be eager to hear your feed back

Nitrogen in tyres is just for rich people who are too lazy to check the pressures regularly, neither of which sounds like you Nigel?

I'm working on a project at the moment looking at petrochemical plant configurations to produce various synthetic rubbers (butyl rubber or IIR isobutyl-isoprene-rubber, and polybutadiene rubber), both of which are used in tyres. The rubber producers/technologists are now aiming for premium formulations to get higher scores and noticved more by the new euro-tyre-label checking consumers, looking for A-B on wet grip and braking, and low noise. When shopping for tyres recently, my previous buying attitude of going with brands I had at least heard of (and a nice tread design ) before went out of the window, and I bought some bizarrely names tyred with "high scores" relative to prices (not for the Coupe, I hasten to add).

The new tyre label rules came into force from Nov 2012 but manufacturers would have been gearing up for up several months in advance. But of course the sad thing is that the manufacturers carry out their own tests, it's not done by any central tyre testing body.

Anyway, my point is that it's quite likely that tyre formulations will have changed recently...

215/40 16 is all wrong - far too small - you need either 205/50 or 225/45

Correct - normally check mine every couple of weeks or so



Interesting.... it may be a placebo effect, but I'd swear that this set is quieter than any other T1-Rs I've run before - maybe they've softened the compound which in turn is giving me "block hysteresis" (tread blocks moving around) - this was certainly the problem with the Toyo PX-4 that I had for a very short time.

Thanks for the info, this was "apparently" all i could have in the T1R's?

I've heard a few people using the tyre size 215/45/16 also, im guessing this is a bad idea also?

Just trying to increase the availability.

225/45 is a pretty common size - you should have no problems finding a decent tyre in that profile

However, don't be fooled by the extra width - if you can get 205/50 cheaper then you should go for it - the wider tyre offers no more grip - the only noticeable difference is aesthetic

Gave in and ordered 4x Toyo R1Rs, now need 4x spare alloys so I can have a dry weather (R1Rs) and a wet weather (T1Rs) set

Sounds to me like someone is trying to sell you some tyres they have in stock, rather than what is actually available

I have just checked on Toyo's website and as I suspected, 205/50 16 and 225/45 16 are listed as available

Let me know if you can't get hold of them - I most certainly can (through Motormech)

Being totally honest i did always have it in my head that a wider tyre did mean more grip, and as a result of being wider they would be more skitterish (if thats a word) in the wet but would make up for it in the dry, or so i thought. But if there's one person to listen to on here regarding the handling of a fiat coupe it's you lol, so i won't question it

And thats just the thing i am struggling to find tyres in 225-45-16 well anything decent anyway, so after much trying to find the right tyres in the right size with a number of suppliers, I've decided to bite the bullet and compromise by going for 215-45-16 in the dunlop sportmax (the v-rated 150mph ones) fingers crossed there ok, or it will be back to the drawing board

Thanks for the info Nigel

Sorry I've just read this after writing my last post. Hmm....Sounds about right! However you have put me off the T1R's now

And also thanks for taking the time to check that, i should of really

Sorry - back to the drawing board it is - 'V' rated is inadequate for a 20VT - you need Z rated as a minimum, with W for modded cars, with either a 87 or 89 load rating

Insurance companies are getting quite hot on under-specced tyres - if you had an accident with V rated tyres on, you may find the insurance company tries to absolve themselves of any liability - not worth the risk IMHO

For gods sake, this has gone on for weeks! Well I'm glad to have your advice. Is there any tyre you've tried and tested in 225-45-16 thats available and you would recommend? Or do you think i should just go for the T1R's? I mean my coop isn't set up like yours, the only handling mods i currently have are the bilstein/eibach combo and a front upper strut brace (I'm working on it ) so I'm thinking maybe the change you feel as advanced as your setup is, maybe the average enthusiastic coupe drive wouldn't notice?

Thanks again.