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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#404757
30/07/2007 14:47
30/07/2007 14:47
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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interesting,
I was told and then saw a similar bhp cracked 20VT block. The mechanic did a similar thing (I recall he only welded short plates to the water galleries of the mid cylinders)
V.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#405220
31/07/2007 00:24
31/07/2007 00:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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Interesting, I've never seen any blocks that have gone like that. I suppose all blocks have their limits tho.
Was it a high boost application? What sort of torque?
Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: JohnS]
#405899
31/07/2007 22:18
31/07/2007 22:18
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Vas, good for knowing that more equal cases had existed, Thanks!
Johns, it is really interesting, never we saw this to also happen, but when it happened they had been in the 2 engines.
Boost used is 32psi, also finds that it can have happened for using a higher pressure. The good one is that with this modification we are using more boost and the cylinders are perfect.
I made this topic to show this possible problem and a good solution, I wait that it is of good advantage!
Thanks, Mateus.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#405968
31/07/2007 23:28
31/07/2007 23:28
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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32psi bit of a hint why your liners are literally blowing apart ! excellent machine work though
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#406025
01/08/2007 01:01
01/08/2007 01:01
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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32 psi is about 2.2 bar isn't it? And you're running more boost now? That's pretty impressive.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#406185
01/08/2007 04:57
01/08/2007 04:57
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Looks, great and good research.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: JohnS]
#406728
02/08/2007 00:04
02/08/2007 00:04
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thank's to all!
Sorry my bad English, but what he is "liners"?!
Mateus.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156098
13/01/2011 20:28
13/01/2011 20:28
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Liners are the surface that contacts with the piston ring, i.e. the 'sleeve' of each cylinder.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156105
13/01/2011 20:46
13/01/2011 20:46
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: JohnS]
#1156123
13/01/2011 21:16
13/01/2011 21:16
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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Interesting, I've never seen any blocks that have gone like that. I suppose all blocks have their limits though.
Was it a high boost application? What sort of torque? Definitely a first for me to. Seen every other failure of this engine
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156141
13/01/2011 21:45
13/01/2011 21:45
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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Liners are the surface that contacts with the piston ring, i.e. the 'sleeve' of each cylinder. Only 3 years and 5 months later with a reply Si
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: Begbie]
#1156151
13/01/2011 22:07
13/01/2011 22:07
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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looking at the motors that have cracked can anyone else see that there is a reason other than cylinder pressure/boost..more to do with combustion or so it looks
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156165
13/01/2011 22:38
13/01/2011 22:38
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tricky
Unregistered
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tricky
Unregistered
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I'n my opinion it's more to do with the water jacket overheating. Too high water temps, det would hole the piston first would it not.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156180
13/01/2011 23:15
13/01/2011 23:15
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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its not det i am thinking but what do i know
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156184
13/01/2011 23:18
13/01/2011 23:18
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156199
13/01/2011 23:45
13/01/2011 23:45
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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no offense gents, look at the crack propagation, right where the block waterways end & the liner begins = stress raiser = crack point. Basically the liner is expanding at the ends ( weakest part ) = split when you are at 36 psi ( CR of 8:8 or higher ), you are talking massive pressure cycles = FAIL. consider it, I did when I thought about my build. JohnS to be fair was at a similar power but not like the Brazil lads....never that sort of boost. only my tuppence
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156209
14/01/2011 00:09
14/01/2011 00:09
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1NRO
Unregistered
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1NRO
Unregistered
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Cylinder pressure. Just use a 16v block, stiff as can be ;-)
I don't know the 20v block well, what is it they are doing that they call a block guard?
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156210
14/01/2011 00:17
14/01/2011 00:17
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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putting in those bars in the waterways to stop the expansion/movement thats the block guard they are talking about
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: Begbie]
#1156219
14/01/2011 00:49
14/01/2011 00:49
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Liners are the surface that contacts with the piston ring, i.e. the 'sleeve' of each cylinder. Only 3 years and 5 months later with a reply Si He He - there's my utterly reliable use of the forum once more...better late than never I guess.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156233
14/01/2011 01:43
14/01/2011 01:43
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 50 portugal
20vtplus
Reaping the fruits
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Reaping the fruits
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 50
portugal
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I have it done on my block .... it is the first in Portugal...
Last edited by 20vtplus; 14/01/2011 01:44.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156274
14/01/2011 08:51
14/01/2011 08:51
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1NRO
Unregistered
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1NRO
Unregistered
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So they drill bars down the water gallery? Do they go all the way to the bottom? What holds them in place?
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156298
14/01/2011 09:54
14/01/2011 09:54
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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What ambient temps typically are in Brazil??
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: ]
#1156311
14/01/2011 10:18
14/01/2011 10:18
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286 Germany
Stichl
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
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HI did a block guard as well, but with heavy duty dowel pins. I wanted to have little continuous pressure to the inliner, but no warping. Nevertheless the cylinder inliner moved up to 2/10 mm measured from pin to pin. I see it critical. It is not the boost pressure, which kills the block. It is the cylinder point pressure, resulting from cams, comp. Ratio, boost, ignition etc. It is a must for 600 +hp in my opinion. It is enough to support max. 2cm. Only in this upper region pressure is critical.
20VT coupegrale 4x4
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: Begbie]
#1156337
14/01/2011 11:11
14/01/2011 11:11
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tricky
Unregistered
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tricky
Unregistered
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Still not convinced that cylinder pressures alone can cause that, it must go hand in hand with another cause.
I've heard of honda's needing a block gaurd, but thier deck is completly open.
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: Begbie]
#1156339
14/01/2011 11:13
14/01/2011 11:13
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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I can't see how that helps. The little pieces of metal won't do anything more to stop a block cracking at extreme pressure as it will just crack where there is no re-enforcement. You need to properly regard the bores. It looks like a good DIY mod but I personally can't see it helping anything. Like what they do on an open deck bloack but with a closed deck you need to put lots of little holes for the water jacket. This is for open deck: http://www.wonderbart.com/2009/04/d16z6-block-and-parts-are-back-from-machine-shop/
Last edited by TurboJ; 14/01/2011 11:22. Reason: added link
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Re: .:Block Guard!
[Re: Kayjey]
#1156361
14/01/2011 11:46
14/01/2011 11:46
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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does anyone else think these are rare occasions?
the amount of coupes that are running around these days and there has only been less than a handful of bore cracks..
now I understand these guys are running 500+ bhp.. but there has to be an underlining issue with them blocks, have they been bored out? did they weekend the bores at that point?
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