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lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
#982828
12/02/2010 02:44
12/02/2010 02:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
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Right, just fitted the lightweight flywheel and 4 paddle uprated clutch from Germany, you'll probably find it familiar to the one posted before somewhere. My blog and pics. The first thing that I noticed is that this flywheel is a bit thinner than the OE version, so the push rod of the clutch slave cylinder came off on the first throw  So I made a new push rod with adjustable length and finally, I got the right length for it. The clutch feels lighter than than the oe and the release position of the clutch is very high (you have to release over 80% of the clutch paddle before it engages). Adjusting the length of the push rod made little difference. Next, when the clutch engages, there's a tremendous vibration caused by the partial engaging of the clutch with the flywheel, so it's either that you have to let it go completely or rev to 2000 and then gradually release it. The worse bit? If I go WOT, it slips all the way to the end(regardless of boost level) and sometime the clutch paddle won't return to it's original height (I've bled the clutch slave cylinder and the brakes thoroughly). I've already broken in the clutch for 300km and it's still the same. I'm taking it apart later today to see what gives. Conclusion, utterly disgusted and disappointed. I spent around 800 quid for this crap  Cheers, David
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#982838
12/02/2010 06:51
12/02/2010 06:51
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blueshift
Unregistered
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blueshift
Unregistered
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Pitty about all that trouble. The fly wheel sure looks a lot lighter, I hope you get it working ok.
If the clutch pedal won't return all the way, there could be a problem with the hydraulics. Are you loosing clutch fluid over time?
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#982839
12/02/2010 07:14
12/02/2010 07:14
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MiniPit
Unregistered
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MiniPit
Unregistered
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My machine shop has lightened and balanced mine to 7 kg. Taking into account i'll be running an Helix 6 paddle clutch they advise me not going lighter if i want to keep a pleasant and reliable car to drive.
Guys, correct me if i'm wrong but don't you think 4.4 kg is a bit too light?
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#982841
12/02/2010 07:25
12/02/2010 07:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
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Pitty about all that trouble. The fly wheel sure looks a lot lighter, I hope you get it working ok.
If the clutch pedal won't return all the way, there could be a problem with the hydraulics. Are you loosing clutch fluid over time?
Hi, I've checked it, it's not the hydraulics, could be the release bearing not being completely locked in place. It only happens when I boot it.With the OE clutch and flywheel, I've tried a few attempts with 1.86 boost, but if the intake temperature goes below 20C, then the clutch starts to slip if I go higher than 1.2 Bar. As the OR flywheel is pretty much knackered, that's why I though I might as well uprate it for a change. Cheers, David
Last edited by DavidL; 12/02/2010 07:26.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#982851
12/02/2010 08:47
12/02/2010 08:47
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blueshift
Unregistered
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blueshift
Unregistered
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My machine shop has lightened and balanced mine to 7 kg. Taking into account i'll be running an Helix 6 paddle clutch they advise me not going lighter if i want to keep a pleasant and reliable car to drive.
Guys, correct me if i'm wrong but don't you think 4.4 kg is a bit too light?
David's fly wheel looks very different to the OE. It's a different shape and maybe made from stronger material. Hopefully, the manufacturer has engineered and tested it thoroughly before marketing it. Removing metal from a standard flywheel as a one off modification is completely different. The more you remove, the hotter it will run and the more likely it is to break.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#983198
12/02/2010 17:54
12/02/2010 17:54
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Displatec
Unregistered
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Displatec
Unregistered
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Right, just fitted the lightweight flywheel and 4 paddle uprated clutch from Germany, you'll probably find it familiar to the one posted before somewhere. My blog and pics. The first thing that I noticed is that this flywheel is a bit thinner than the OE version, so the push rod of the clutch slave cylinder came off on the first throw So I made a new push rod with adjustable length and finally, I got the right length for it. The clutch feels lighter than than the oe and the release position of the clutch is very high (you have to release over 80% of the clutch paddle before it engages). Adjusting the length of the push rod made little difference. Next, when the clutch engages, there's a tremendous vibration caused by the partial engaging of the clutch with the flywheel, so it's either that you have to let it go completely or rev to 2000 and then gradually release it. The worse bit? If I go WOT, it slips all the way to the end(regardless of boost level) and sometime the clutch paddle won't return to it's original height (I've bled the clutch slave cylinder and the brakes thoroughly). I've already broken in the clutch for 300km and it's still the same. I'm taking it apart later today to see what gives. Conclusion, utterly disgusted and disappointed. I spent around 800 quid for this crap Cheers, David Good afternoon David, We are a company from Brazil and we have a few opitions for the Coupe. Please, see our post: http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=702704&page=4Anything just ask. Best regards, Displatec Team.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#983496
13/02/2010 02:45
13/02/2010 02:45
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
Saint
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
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just thought I would put in a bit of feedback as I did a similar conversion, I have the 16vt not 20vt and when the cltuch gave up I decided to change the flywheel as well thanks to paddy, I went to the Fidanza billet alloy unit with steel insert - which I should mention I had to modify (fidanza tell me they have modified there stock based on my feedback)  I went with an new OE friction plate as I didnt want the harshness of a puck clutch plate I then took the cover in and had the clamping pressure upgraded by about a third, by shorting the fingers range I am on a flea chip and about 300ft/lbs and to date no problems In regards to the flywheel it is 3.8kg from memory down from circa 9kg for OE It makes a noticable difference, but the pedal inself feels no different to press in. I likely wouldn't recommend it for a stop start daily driver as while it does not stall it can be a bit more tricky to get moving from a standstill, you have to feather the clutch in and out a bit (or give it revs) but once you are moving it is magic, revs freely and response is fast, I don't seem to have lost any torque (i actually believe this to be a bit of a red herring - read puma race engines explanition) So overall a good mod for a weekend car
Last edited by Saint; 13/02/2010 02:50.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: Saint]
#983521
13/02/2010 09:21
13/02/2010 09:21
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,575
Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,575
Berlin
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The article to which Saint refers is here: http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/FLYWHEEL.htm - I was going to post it myself! You should note his point about the effectiveness of the mass loss being multiplied by the gearing and whether it's useful on a big low-geared engine - like the coupe turbos. I *believe* it would benefit the NA engine with its shorter final drive ratio.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappoint
[Re: barnacle]
#983680
13/02/2010 18:15
13/02/2010 18:15
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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David, this is a shame to hear pal. FYI I run a slightly lightened flywheel & a 6 paddle Helix Ceremetallic clutch ( I avoided organic ) Basically, when Barbz did mine, he reused an old flywheel, the did the simple steps: 1) skim the driven surface by a few thou to remove the hot spots etc 2) Take approx' 1kg from the rear surface of the flywheel & then had it balanced. Basically, I have no issues at all. I did have a pattern part slave cyl that exhibited slip o the Alfa GTA clutch, as the pedal would stay down at very high rpm. It now is very light, but grips like a gorilla. I hope you get this resolved. You'd be better off reusing your existing OEM flywheel & doing some MINOR lightening. I'd say 1kg just is enough. BTW your old clutch shows the classic symptoms of having too big springs that were rubbing on the flywheel ( must have been slipping ). cheers 
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappoint
[Re: ]
#983939
14/02/2010 11:59
14/02/2010 11:59
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chr77176
Unregistered
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chr77176
Unregistered
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Is it a product from cufaro shop? (for the flywheel?)
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#984402
15/02/2010 09:28
15/02/2010 09:28
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Jari
Unregistered
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Jari
Unregistered
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Hi David, I think I know 99% the reason for your clutch slippage . If yes, then you can fixed it without loosing the parts. Did you measure the thickness of the clutch plate. According to your pictures the flywheel is more or less like the OE one from the friction part. These mean that the friction surface is app. 0.5 mm higher than the clutch cover fixation surface. This with the more or less OE clutch cover means that the clutch plate thickness shall not be more than 7.6 mm. My friend did have OE flywheel + sintered clutch plate + GTA clutch cover and huge slippage. Reason was that the plate was 8.4 mm thick, after shimming the clutch cover with 0.8 mm everything was once again perfect and the clutch is holding now some 500 Nm (368 lb-ft). -Jari-
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#986734
19/02/2010 11:49
19/02/2010 11:49
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
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Hi guys, Thanks for the comments and suggestion. The lightweight flywheel and clutch kit (pressure plate, friction plate, release bearing) are all from Cufaro. As they came in a complete set, therefore, I didn't expect to have any problem with them, I was wrong. After 500 km of breaking in, the clutch still slipped will be changing back to the oe clutch kit this weekedn, should also be able to take a look at the flywheel and see if there's any worn surface. Cheers, David
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#986763
19/02/2010 12:25
19/02/2010 12:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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Doesn't surprise me that the product was from Cufaro. He is banned from this site as his customer service skills were much to be desired and wouldn't refund people, plus his products ain't great and just copies everyone else.
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: Rog20VT]
#986981
19/02/2010 16:53
19/02/2010 16:53
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Jan
Unregistered
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Jan
Unregistered
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Hello.
I have this kit from Cufaro. No problems what so ever. My car runs great with this flywheel and clutch,no slipping and very responsiv on the trottle. My clutch pedal is also very light to push in. maybe i was just lucky with my kit. I run gt28r ,sip,fmic,3 downpipe from H&S.
I hope you will sort this out.
Kindely JG
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#987007
19/02/2010 17:34
19/02/2010 17:34
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
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Hello.
I have this kit from Cufaro. No problems what so ever. My car runs great with this flywheel and clutch,no slipping and very responsiv on the trottle. My clutch pedal is also very light to push in. maybe i was just lucky with my kit. I run gt28r ,sip,fmic,3 downpipe from H&S.
I hope you will sort this out.
Kindely JG Hi Jan, Are you also using the 4 paddle clutch? My clutch slipped right from the start, when you rev it now, no matter what boost you're using. I'm running GT28RS, 3.8 bar regulator, welbro 255, Gtec-2, side vent,Avc-R, JE forged internals with ceramic coating and horizontal holes etc. Cheers, David
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#987032
19/02/2010 17:57
19/02/2010 17:57
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Jan
Unregistered
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Jan
Unregistered
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Hi David.
Yes i use the 4 paddle clutch.I never go beyond 1,4 bar in boost ,but its not slipping att this level.I have a slight vibration when i realese the pedal. I have used it for ca 10,000 kilometers.it tok me some time to get used to it ,but now i enjoy it very much.
Jg
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: Begbie]
#987217
20/02/2010 00:51
20/02/2010 00:51
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MichaelZ
Unregistered
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MichaelZ
Unregistered
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Doesn't surprise me that the product was from Cufaro. He is banned from this site as his customer service skills were much to be desired and wouldn't refund people, plus his products ain't great and just copies everyone else. I would like to know names of the products he copies... As some of his items in stock seem unique to me. I bought some stock parts for Cufaro, and think about conrods and some other parts. So additional feedback of his products (not only clutches) will be much appriciated.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#987645
21/02/2010 00:28
21/02/2010 00:28
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MichaelZ
Unregistered
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MichaelZ
Unregistered
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The reason that I didn't point out in the first place that's they are from Cufaro is that I'm told that it's my problem and not that of the product itself. No luck this week in removing the gearbox and clutch, will do so later next week.
Cheers,
David I'm not looking forward to consider Cufaro being a bad company also. Salvatore was pretty gentle when I bought supercharger from him and some other bits. BTW, he advised me pretty intensive to take a light flywhell from him )))) He seems to like this product pretty much.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: ]
#1054987
18/06/2010 08:16
18/06/2010 08:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
DavidL
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 581
Taiwan
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Right, after using the cufaro clutch for 500 miles, I'm pretty much fed up with it as it started making all kinds of sounds when you struggle to let the clutch bite, so I went with the 6 paddle clutch GP. Here's what the 4 paddle clutch looks like after 500km:  From the above pic, you can see that the compound on the outer rim have chipped.  Another paddle with scratched face  The clutch cover. From the above results, I can say that the cluch or the clutch cover was not evenly balanced, so it ended up looking like this.Even after driving it slow for 500 km, darn, I'm till gutted.
Last edited by DavidL; 18/06/2010 08:17.
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Re: lightweight flywheel&clutch = utter disappointment
[Re: DavidL]
#1055115
18/06/2010 11:40
18/06/2010 11:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Stichl
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
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Hmmm - this really does not look good...
This abrasion after 500miles ist not normal in every way- very very annoying.
To Cufaro: I bought a lot of performance parts from this shop and I never had any problems with him.
The shop owner was very professional and helped me a lot.
Therefore I cannot confirm bad experiences from this shop...
I would buy parts again at once.
Only problem, I had with him: one time I had to wait a little bit longer (6 weeks for a tubular manifold, intended were max. 4 weeks... but it was worth waiting!)
Juergen
20VT coupegrale 4x4
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/fiatcoupenet/pics/sig_barnacle_v1.gif)
feeling is. Why not AskForSupport@Mr.Cufaro.de, so will discover there are other "mates" with that type of extraordinary kindness of new dimensions, you are familiar to. But don´t bother too much, every similar feeling cures with time or "quids". Nevertheless, I will be glad to explain to the admins what causes my smiles...