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My 20VT 4x4 monster #879561
10/08/2009 12:43
10/08/2009 12:43
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Stichl Offline OP
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline OP
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Meanwhile a lot of people pm me because of my 4x4 – now I decided to put in some more detail to answer most questions of these people, who are interested in such a conversion…

My 4x4 has following spec:

Engine:
- 2,4l engine from Barbz
- big valve head additionally ported from previous F1-engine- builder Hartmut Lohmann (grinding shop for cylinder head BMW Formula One and optimizing of rods), Ferrea valves
- complete inlet system (plenum etc.) ported by hartmut as well
- C&B cams
- Big Garret IC rated for 600HP
- 4" inlet
- KMS free programmable ECU
- custom made manifold (Cufaro Racing) with T3 flange
- custom made dual flow exhaust with 2x63mm into 3" at the end
- GT3082R with external WG TIAL 44mm
- streghtened Dedra Integrale Box with main differential from a Delta Integrale EVO for a power distribution of 47% front / 53% rear
- Dual paddle clutch with very light flywheel (about 4,5kg) from Cufaro Racing
- complete Alfa Q4 4x4 drive train
- 19" Superleggera III alloys with 245/30 tires for a minimum of weight (21,8kg for the complete wheel - not bad for 19" and 245)
- D2 coilovers
- selfmade subframe brace, PU-bushes
- D2 8pot brake with 356mm in the front, Tarox 300mm brake conversion in the rear.
- power output with a compression ratio of about 8,5:1 and 98 Octane: measured 565 whp !!!

Thanks to Johns and Barbz, who helped me a lot to create such a HP- monster!

Driving experiences are very very impressive... a lot of boost below 3000rpm (about 0,5Bar), after ~3700rpm full boost (up to 1,55bar relating to the rpm – this to avoid too much torque, which could lead to a gear box failure).
Driveability:
My car is quite perfect to drive with really no problems regarding grip...
In curves the car comes around itself when pushing the accelerator pedal.
The drivability got much better!!! I would do it again...
The acceleration from 0 - 100km/h is awesome... you have to tell the co-driver that you now intend to accelerate... else they get scared :-)
My girlfriend does not want to drive in this car any more - because of it’s brutal speed-up... :-)
If overdoing, the car simply jackknifes…

What has to be done to do the conversation
Biggest problem is:
- the oil sump... you need to modify the original oil sump - we cut away some parts from the original one and welded it again... this was a sh... job!
Attention: provide enough baffle plates – else you will get problems with oil pressure in quick corners… (like me L)
- a tank: you have to cut away the spare tyre boot. I installed a selfmade tank - but there are some older rare Delta 2 with a tank (I think the five-door), which matches to the coupe (you need one which can be placed after rear axle).
- a new downpipe + exhaust - I welded a custom part.
The other parts are almost "plug in"
The engine moves about 1,25cm towards the right (then there is no space between the frame carrier and engine any more)...
The original engine mounts will do this little way.
Then you have to use the Integrale gearbox (fits perfectly to the engine) with the tranfer box and the original transfer box mount from the Dedra/Q4
To get the gearbox fitted you will have to use the gear box cover + mount from the 5-gear 20VT.
Some minor modifications have to be done to get all fitted...but not great...you need a good mechanic...
The complete rear axle will fit per drag and drop... you will need spacers, because the rear axle of 155 Q4 / Dedra is smaller than Fiat Coupe.
You can use a Dedra Integrale (advantage: longer gear ratio - the Alfa Q4 gear ratio is too short) or a Alfa 155Q4 as "donor"-car
advantage Q4:
- a real Torsen differential as rear axle
- power 47% in the front / 53% in the rear towards 54%/46% (Dedra)

These cars become very rare meanwhile.

I also realized, that with some bigger modifications it should be possible to use the 6th gear box for the 4x4 - the 6th gear box includes an adaptor for the 4x4 main differential.
Another number of crown gear teeth is the only problem...

Pics and tutorials can be seen under:
http://www.gmx.de/mc/JPNuQUXwBlYZ6ivmOqD7lyeDPKYjcs

Button „GMX MediaCenter starten“

Juergen


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879570
10/08/2009 12:54
10/08/2009 12:54

N
Nobby
Unregistered
Nobby
Unregistered
N



Very nice smile

Where did you get your D2 brakes from? I have D2 305mm 6-pots on mine

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #879572
10/08/2009 12:56
10/08/2009 12:56

N
ngspawn
Unregistered
ngspawn
Unregistered
N



wow would be great to see a video of acceleration if you have it

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879573
10/08/2009 12:57
10/08/2009 12:57
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline
Forum is my life
Flea  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Link not working Juergen. Have you been on the dyno for a power run?


[Linked Image]

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879576
10/08/2009 12:58
10/08/2009 12:58
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72 Offline
Competition Level
Freddan72  Offline
Competition Level

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Excellent car! Please sell it to me laugh

What do you think about the D2 coilovers?


Coupé Fiat 20V Turbo Plus 1999, T19 Mitsubishi turbo
https://youtu.be/O9qrLj3Ap00 Now FCP Stage3!
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879577
10/08/2009 12:58
10/08/2009 12:58

M
Marco20valveT
Unregistered
Marco20valveT
Unregistered
M



wow.

what a spec! some seriously good work gone into your car!

any chance of some pics as that link didnt take me any where!

great stuff! thumb

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #879589
10/08/2009 13:08
10/08/2009 13:08

T
TurboJ
Unregistered
TurboJ
Unregistered
T



565WBHP with 4WD!!! shocked
You got a dynoprint out?

No working links hosted below:

click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge

Taken for the tuning Guide:
"Stage 5 – 4WD/RWD with 650BHP+
Somebody build one please. :D"

- Looks like your the first (pending graph)


Amazing and xmas thumb

Last edited by TurboJ; 10/08/2009 13:59. Reason: Added
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Flea] #879596
10/08/2009 13:16
10/08/2009 13:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Stichl Offline OP
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline OP
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Originally Posted By: Flea
Link not working Juergen. Have you been on the dyno for a power run?


Please do following (should work):

http://www.gmx.de/mc/JPNuQUXwBlYZ6ivmOqD7lyeDPKYjcs

Press Button „GMX MediaCenter starten“

To dyno:
I used a Reiner3000 system - four test runs on two days with comparable results.
This is the only onroad system with German Tuev accreditation.
Have a look:
http://www.alpin-tuningshop.de/index.php...=14&lang=en
Juergen


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879602
10/08/2009 13:26
10/08/2009 13:26

S
suba
Unregistered
suba
Unregistered
S



Awesome - great work! laugh

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #879617
10/08/2009 13:53
10/08/2009 13:53
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,225
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Forum veteran

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,225
FCSS 01684 593187
Fantastic conversion, nicely done thumb

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Countrycruising] #879622
10/08/2009 14:10
10/08/2009 14:10
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
G
Gunzi Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Gunzi  Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
G

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
Wow what a conversion! It looks very tidy indeed smile

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Gunzi] #879630
10/08/2009 14:21
10/08/2009 14:21

N
ninja
Unregistered
ninja
Unregistered
N



very impressive, and very well done for the effort that youve obviously put into it.

now . . . i wanna see a video laugh

Ninja

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Gunzi] #879631
10/08/2009 14:22
10/08/2009 14:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS Offline
I need some sleep
JohnS  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
Fantastic job!

laugh


Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879656
10/08/2009 15:17
10/08/2009 15:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Stichl Offline OP
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline OP
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
Originally Posted By: Stichl
Originally Posted By: Flea
Link not working Juergen. Have you been on the dyno for a power run?


Please do following (should work):

http://www.gmx.de/mc/JPNuQUXwBlYZ6ivmOqD7lyeDPKYjcs

Press Button „GMX MediaCenter starten“

To dyno:
I used a Reiner3000 system - four test runs on two days with comparable results.
This is the only onroad system with German Tuev accreditation.
Have a look:
http://www.alpin-tuningshop.de/index.php...=14&lang=en
Juergen


Update: New Pics added!

Thank you for for plaudit... my garage did a wonderful job - I also got German Tuev, because of the good work - Car condition now isn't worse than the original car...

Juergen


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879689
10/08/2009 16:22
10/08/2009 16:22

C
coupedave
Unregistered
coupedave
Unregistered
C



Wow amazing coupe!!
love the subtle styling too!!

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879759
10/08/2009 18:25
10/08/2009 18:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72 Offline
Competition Level
Freddan72  Offline
Competition Level

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
I can't see any pics. The link doesn't work frown

I get this message: Diese Session ist nicht mehr gültig (Timeout). Bitte schließen Sie dieses Fenster und melden Sie sich neu mit Ihrem GMX Account an.


Coupé Fiat 20V Turbo Plus 1999, T19 Mitsubishi turbo
https://youtu.be/O9qrLj3Ap00 Now FCP Stage3!
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Stichl] #879762
10/08/2009 18:32
10/08/2009 18:32

E
eldinho
Unregistered
eldinho
Unregistered
E



Originally Posted By: Stichl
Originally Posted By: Flea
Link not working Juergen. Have you been on the dyno for a power run?


Please do following (should work):

http://www.gmx.de/mc/JPNuQUXwBlYZ6ivmOqD7lyeDPKYjcs

Press Button „GMX MediaCenter starten“

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #879765
10/08/2009 18:40
10/08/2009 18:40

L
luke
Unregistered
luke
Unregistered
L



Lovely car laugh

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #879780
10/08/2009 18:58
10/08/2009 18:58

M
maastiff
Unregistered
maastiff
Unregistered
M



cracking car mate, is this the first 20VT 4x4?? I know there are a few 16VT 4x4

Last edited by maastiff; 10/08/2009 23:24. Reason: typo
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #879969
11/08/2009 01:41
11/08/2009 01:41

R
Redd
Unregistered
Redd
Unregistered
R



wow! well done! and im even more impressed that the car looks totally stock from the outside. smile

redd

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880022
11/08/2009 09:16
11/08/2009 09:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Nice work Stichl, now get some videos up on youtube smile


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Begbie] #880039
11/08/2009 09:39
11/08/2009 09:39
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289
Malvern
coupe_integrale Offline
My job on the forum
coupe_integrale  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289
Malvern
Amazing conversion! Love it, as said - we need videos!


Fiat Coupe Integrale
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: coupe_integrale] #880067
11/08/2009 10:25
11/08/2009 10:25

G
grgy
Unregistered
grgy
Unregistered
G



Wirklich bewundernswert....

Very well done,the car looks totally stock from outside.Buth there,s a monster under it evil

ein Wolf im Schafspelz wink

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880096
11/08/2009 11:04
11/08/2009 11:04

D
DanielTheManual
Unregistered
DanielTheManual
Unregistered
D



Amazing work!

Would you like to come over to England next year for Ten of the Best? laugh

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880122
11/08/2009 11:35
11/08/2009 11:35

S
suba
Unregistered
suba
Unregistered
S



.....and sneak into the FWD category? smile

Seriously - I'm sure the club or it's members would sponsor it in some way if you were interested. smile

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880271
11/08/2009 14:29
11/08/2009 14:29
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Forum veteran
Nigel  Offline
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Whilst it would be nice to see it at Ten of the Best, the truth is that it would very quickly be banned from the FWD class and it would be totally mullered in the 4WD class (you need 750+ bhp to be competitive in that company)

Still V. impressive though - can't wait to see some performance stats


[Linked Image]
Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: Nigel] #880300
11/08/2009 15:11
11/08/2009 15:11

E
eldinho
Unregistered
eldinho
Unregistered
E



don't forget this is WHP and also on 98 RON fuel. would like to see what quarter mile it could do with race fuel.

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880304
11/08/2009 15:14
11/08/2009 15:14

N
Nobby
Unregistered
Nobby
Unregistered
N



I'd donate a tenner for fuel... that should last....er... a couple of minutes... laugh

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880308
11/08/2009 15:17
11/08/2009 15:17

E
eldinho
Unregistered
eldinho
Unregistered
E



I bet you'd want to be passenger for those 2 minutes too laugh

Re: My 20VT 4x4 monster [Re: ] #880484
11/08/2009 20:10
11/08/2009 20:10

H
Hani
Unregistered
Hani
Unregistered
H



Good work Juergen. Need to see videos of it on the Autobahn wink

Interested to know the 1/4 mile time with this monster as well.

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