thats what im aiming att, bit by bit because att the end of the day it a cuest of money

250bhp is much easier to achieve, can be done on the standard turbo with supporting mods, exhaust, FMIC, SIP and evocars chip - I got over 250bhp at 16psi with these mods

300bhp is much more work

sorry tu ask but FMIC and SIP what does it mean?
and when you say exhaust just exhaust or manifold also?
300bhp probably in a few years time.
thanks cheers

FMIC = Frount Mounted Intercooler
SIP = Straight Induction Pipe

Think Saint just means the Exhaust from the turbo!

ok thanks eldinho,
un more cuestion exhaust from the turbo means no CAT ? wright? ive red in one of the forum pages that if we eliminate the cat i should shange the turbo seals because they wear out quikly.
so far my coop dosent have silencers i cut them out and put two straight pipe pieces but is that good enough?
if i have to eliminate te cat can i do the same thing cut it away and weld another pipe or not?

if you remove the Cat the turbo seals will likely give up more quickly but you could still get years/ or only weeks. I ran for a year with no cat without issues

your still going to need some resonators, otherwise it will be too loud and really you need to increase the pipe diameter of the whole system

Im not in the U.K. but I think there are off the shelf system availbe from the turbo back, I think blue flame and others make them. I would say you need a decent backbox and one or two resonator under the car, pipe somewhere between 2.5" and 3" full system

someone there said that replace with 20vt and lots of mods.. what for ? all you need is : 3" exhaust, fmic, evo chip, higher fuel pressure ( about 3.2-3.4bar ) bigger turbo. boost about 1.2-1.3bar, thats it. no need for 20vt engine.. you can get over 700hp with 16v also

thanks guys thats what im going to do lets see how much money i have

upsss. one little cuestion is it ok if i leave the original exhaust on with none of the two silencers and leave the cat for the moment? with the evocars chip, the walboro fuel pump and bigger boost ? will that be ok ? and if its ok would it give me about 230HP ?
thanks guys thats my last cuestion hopefully before i start all this.
cheers

Yes - it's fine, the two muffler out will just make it louder, evocars chip will raise mid range boost to 1.4bar but dropping to .9bar at redline. If I was you I would get the cat out as well though, however I'm not sure how that effects your MOT tests (we don't have emmisson tests here) - so your call on if thats legal where you are. Walbro will make no difference.

Once the Evocars chip is fitted (not sure if you plan to fit the 3bar FPR) but either way you need to get the fueling checked on a RR - especially if you don't change the FPR (fuel pressure regulator) there is a chance you will run lean at high boost and that can been a blown engine so you need to check it.

I would say 220-230bhp but the rr will tell you anyway

and - the evocars chip is spec with special plugs, can't rememebr off the top of my head, but do a search and you will fine the name they are an NGK plug

NGK B8EGV plugs are reccomended

I'm resisting adding my opinion on this thread for too long so my 2eurocent:

Built a 3inch downpipe (throw away the 90deg elbow off the turbo!), remove the cat and continue with the 60mm stock exhaust (keep the mid box if you wish and if it's not rusted).

Fit the evocars chip (and most likely the 3bar FPR)
Do the wiring mod so that your pump sends what it should to the motor.

Get some sort of boost regulator (drop the stock ebv or buy the 30USD ADELCO - see another thread)

Free flow airfilter on drilled airbox.

16V tipo inlet cam (check exhaust cam for wear)

Should see you at 260 at 1.2bar or there abouts.

A turbo from a cosworth will help you reach (the arbitrary limit of) 300bhp.
HAVING SAID THAT: you need suspension overhaul, probably front wishbones, topmounts, shocks, lowered springs.
You also need decent disks and pads all around.
Ah, and soon enough you'll need a decent clutch as 16VTs are hard on the clutches when tuned.

Good luck

V.

PS. when I see/hear of a 20vt lump reaching 900-1000bhp THEN I'll accept that the 20VT is equal to a 16vt engine. Till then and as far as tuning potential is concerned, I'm afraid that 20VT is way behind. So let us all get on with what we have/chosen please without all these smart comments!

Blueflame isn't available off the shelf for 16VT! I had to get my custom designed

dont now what i would do without you guys!!!
well just by changing the air filter of the coop it whont pass the MOT in spain if its not omologated you will not pass it a friend of mine has a audi a 3 and hat s3 seats fitted in and it didnt pass the mot thats how imbecils we are in spain so hopefully the cops dont stop me otherwise they will have to chasse me probably you guys will se me on tv soon ( just jokin )
well i have a demontweeks catalogue and saw a power boost valve in the article it says:
if you are equipped with electronic fuel injection a power boost valve will give you an instant increase of power ( instant what exaclty do they mean)you will notice as soon as you snap open the throttle and instant because its a simpe bolt on or remote kit fitting directly replacing your existing fuel pressure control valve. its ideal for road and competition cars, unlike standard valves wich are permanently preset the power boost valve is ajustable to allow you to vary the fuel pressure as further performance enhancement.this facility is mainly intended for modified engines where the demand of fuel my be grater.

and whats the difference with a fuel regulater and a fuel pump? if a can regulate the fuel shouldnt need the pump?
because buying the evocars chip i get the 4 ngk plugs the ones saint said and a 3 bar fuel pressure regulator

so what i need is :
evocars chip
4 plugs ngk
power boost vales?
fuel pressure regulator
fuel pump upgrade
front mount intercooler ?
blow off valve
boost controllers?

is this what i need for about 230hp or can i eliminate something?

thanks
learning to much from you guys

if i have to have all this so that my turbo or engine dosent blow up then ill spend a bit extra for it

Power boost valve - waste of time
fuel pump upgrade - might get away without this for 260bhp, but if you plan to go to 300bhp you will need it.
boost controller - its a personal thing, better boost control but removes some of the ecu safety features

the rest - yes

difference between a fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator. A fuel pump just sits in the fuel tank and pumps it's max capcity that it can force through the lines, there is a little valve (fuel pressure regualtor) at the end of the fuel rail (in the engine bay) that regulates the pressure (factory to 2.5bar, uprated 3bar or more) and if the pump is pumping 265lph at 4bar then what is not needed by the rail/injectors is "bled" back to the fuel tank via a return line.

Otherwise as Vas says,

arnt 4 pots better than 5 because it will be a more balanced engine !!

More cylinders = more power, take a look at F1 over the years for proof.
I think that it is because the 20VT is much younger than the 16VT so it hasn't had enough of the aftermarket developement time, the 16v was also used in the integrale for years too and there are lots more off-the-shelf parts available, there will be a day when the 20v overtakes the 4 pot.
It has to said though that I know nothing of 5 pot tuning, are there any large stumbling blocks which are preventing it from going further at the moment?

gralecoupe:

• tuningwise "difficult" ECU
• thinish liners not well supported so on high pressure applications tends to open up on top. Needs steel stubs to hold the liners nice and square (has been done in Brazil and Greece see old threads for photos)
• comparatively badly designed ports (OK there is tuning potential there realised by Barbz )
• hydraulic lifters
• And most important, engine was never raced (officially) production numbers are low (coupe, kappa, few bravos), iirc got caught up on legistative issues on emmissions and by the time ppl understand and are willing to invest there wont be any left

V.

PS. sorry but I'm really pi55ed off seen irrelevant comments on the supposed "superiority" of the 20vt by ppl that haven't seen a fcuking engine open (let alone one next to the other). It's easier to get to 250-260 but it's also much more easy to kill it.

Well, no need for apologies, you're only putting your point across. I had always thought about starting up a thread on 16v V 20v, but figured it would have been done to death in the past.
I always imagined it to be a stretched version of the four pot, but it seems there are many differences. The Ecu can soon be swapped - anyone seriously tuning the 16v ditches the OE one too. (no offence intended) Although remapping the P8 is still in its infancy.
As you say, the liner issue has already been addressed, as have the ports.
Anyone done anything with the hydraulic lifters? Presumably replacing them with traditional tappet buckets to allow it to rev better? I guess the rev limiting and liner strength issues are why some have gone for 2.4 conversions?
Somebody somewhere will always find a way around a problem if it gets them further up the ladder or makes money!

I guess that the fact that probably less of them were made and it is confined to just one car will always work against it though, the 16v engine has had more developement thrown at it also because in its original home you had the luxury of traction (to a certain degree) to cope with your extra power, I cannot imagine what a fwd Coupe would be like with 600bhp at the front wheels.

It does sound bloody good though too.

I think perhaps another thread needs starting as we seem to have drifted off topic......

really im optimistic with the 4 cylinder,
last year i was att the ferrari museum and factory, and i saw one of the 4 cylinder engines a 1.400 litre engine with a turbo of the size of 2 shoe boxes and had over 1300bhp ok it was a ferrari engine but was used during the 80is and 90s
speaking to an engineer about the coupe he said anything is posible if i whant 1000bhp for the car the biggest problem MONEY wich means that everything i mean everthing must be changed the only original part would be the engine bloc, also remeber asking him to do give the coop rear wheel drive because i dont really like the idea of front or 4 wheel drive and its posible only that the weight of the car wouldnt be balanced because the engine would fit in the back just how you take it out of the front.other option is spending a fortune tu adapt a porsche gear box but att the end of the day he said that anything is posible when you spend over 80,000 pounds or more..
thanks for the info guys

dont forget that the mitsucishi mivec engine is a copy of the lancia delta engine

you will need alot of work doing to a 16vt to gat it 300+ bhp but very doable

easier to buy another engine to woprk on as it will be in bits most of the time

forged pistons
balanced con rods
16vt crank is all ready forged but you can take it out for re-balancing
port and flow the head
you could enlarge the inlet opening bigger butterfly
larger inlet valves
larger exhaust valves
race or rally cams
walbro fuel pump
larger injecters
fuel preasure regulater
one big ass turbo
custom manifold 2 options one with a external wastegate or not
fmic evo intercooler pretty cheap and easy to install
3'' custom exhaust
electronic boost controller
bov or a d/v
uprated brakes
remap or a standalone ecu such as megasquirt

and to be safe fit new parts other than that such as a new oil pump new radiator brand new hoses etc

forged pistons NO !
balanced con rods NO !
16vt crank is all ready forged but you can take it out for re-balancing NO NEED !
port and flow the head FOR 300HP NO NEED !
you could enlarge the inlet opening bigger butterfly NO NEED !
larger inlet valves NO !
larger exhaust valves NO !
race or rally cams NO ! 325hp measured with standards.
walbro fuel pump YES
larger injecters NO NEED ! 325hp @ 3.4bar fuel
fuel preasure regulater YES !
one big ass turbo NOT THAT BIG
custom manifold 2 options one with a external wastegate or not NO NEED TO CHANCE
fmic evo intercooler pretty cheap and easy to install YES !
3'' custom exhaust YES !
electronic boost controller MANUAL DO THE SAME JOB
bov or a d/v HMM..
uprated brakes YES IF RACING HARD
remap or a standalone ecu such as megasquirt REMAP 100e finland, or EVO CHIP and RR DONE.

jtm: +1
gt_SEBO: your recommendations closely match what I've done but that's not for 300bhp but 400+ (currently 360fly with a v.conservative programming and at 1.2bar with a cosworth turbo, a mate with better cams and GT3076 got 400wbhp at 0.9bar). I think you are overspecifying that engine...

stock injectors got me 320 (but at AFR13.5 ) before finishing @3.0bar fpr.
No need for bigger valves unless you're aiming at 500+

V.

for the moment it will be fine with between 230 to 255bhp .
ç
with all thease parts i think its enough:

evocars chip
4 plugs ngk B8EGV
fuel pressure regulator
fuel pump upgrade
front mount intercooler
blow off valve
boost controllers not really necesary Saint said
boost gauge
fuel pressure gauge
the 3"exhaust will have to whate for the moment it will be ok with the original exhaust with out the 2 silencers, maybe in the long run il cut out the cat and change the turbo seals but that will be in the future.

before i star to order anything i would like to ask you guys about the makes im going to get .
the chip will be the evocars
the plugs are the ngk B8EGV
the fuel pressure regulater dont now really because when i buy the chip it comes with the plugs and the fuel presurre regulator.
a walboro 255 fuel pump or can i use any other that fits the coupe?
the intercooler does it have to be the evo 5,6,7 or 8 intercooler?or can it be any other with the same mesurments?
the blowoff dont now what make it is but im buying it off also from evocars.
the boost controler i thought of a manual one a turbosmart because they cheap a electronic one goes over 150pounds

1st u should check your engine , that everything is in good conditions! u will never ever get 250horses with the original t3 turbo. (never ever means never ! ) . to get save 250+ hp u need a bigger turbo (eg. t3 super 60. this one will be good for 270 - 290 hp). forget the evo-chip (everybody here thinks, that it is THE chip .. but it isnt .. use the evo on the german autobahn and your engine is gone in 10 min) and get your setup live mapped !!

sorry NOISE there are much cars with original turbo and 250hp !

what size intercooler would i need ? does it have to be a evo one?
cheers