I've been asked a couple of times about whether Stilo Abarth brakes are an upgrade to 16VT brakes as I own a Stilo Abarth

After doing some research on both and looking at both calipers the answer is YES.

The Stilo Caliper bolts up to what looks like the same pattern as the 16VT caliper. There may be slight differences but they are easily overcome. If I have some time on the weekend I'll verify the bolt on compatibility

Here is a summary of the differences which leads me to say they are better-

The Stilo Abarth brake pads have 20% greater surface area than 16VT. I've got the exact measurements if anyone is interested. But that means the force they can exert is similarly greater.
The pad surface is greater in both dimensions (deeper and wider) therefore heat dissappation will also be superior.

Presumably the brake piston area is larger as well, but I haven't verified that.

The Stilo Abarth discs are 281x26mm vs. 284x22mm for the 16VT so are better ventilated as well and will have greater resistance to overheating

The offset from front face to disc back is the same for both discs, therefore the difference in thickness is related to the front face to disc front only.


So if you're looking for a relatively cheap conversion then this might well be the way to go. Certainly there isn't likely to be much demand for Stilo abarth calipers from breakers yards

As a side, if you ever drive a Stilo Abarth bear in mind it has electronic brake distribution (EBD) that also contributes to its superior braking.

John

cheers for looking into this john

Would be very keen to get a definative answer about whats required to swap them when you get time

While this is a far easier swap than going to the 20vt brembos' how would you you think the 2 conversions would compare for stopping power?

thanks

the area of the pad isnt as relevant as the piston area, can you measure the piston diameter John?

Rich

Thanks for the info John (a bit concerned on the availability of Stilo Abarths in Greece tbh, probably less than a dozen sold as engine size >2.0lt == extremely high tax!) unless I source some from Italy/Germany...

Rich: isn't it both piston diametre and pad area that matters in "clamping force" measurement?

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the area of the pad isnt as relevant as the piston area, can you measure the piston diameter John?

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I'll measure it on the weekend if I get time.

As far as comparison with 20VT brembos - put it this way, I wouldn't convert my Stilo to use either a 20VT or Lancia Evo 2 brembo setup.
There is a Brembo granturismo kit for the Stilo but that weighs in at £1000+VAT if I remember correctly and that just gives you a 305x28mm disc like the 20VT (so totally pointless)

Yes thats right vas, force over area. But if the pistons arent bigger then there will be no more braking force, from the piston alone. I suspect they are bigger, but with the slightly smaller disc, will this gain anything, I dont know. What is more interesting is a thicker disc as this is very beneficial to cooling, not sure they'd fit under my 15inch rims though with out some larger spacers.

Rich

I think 15" rims would be fine TBH. The Stilo runs ET42 alloys that need 20mm spacers to go on a 20VT, and in some countries the Stilo Abarth has 15" rims as standard not 16s that are standard in the UK.

Don't be blinded by the modest difference in outside diameter- if you measure the braking area on the disc from the outer edge to the inner edge it is greater on the Stilo disc which is why the stilo pads are able to be larger in both dimensions.

As an alternative if you machined 1mm+ off the inner part of the slider then you could probably accomodate the stilo disc I would guess even without changing caliper.

My Stilo discs are pretty worn so I'll be changing them soon. So if anyone would like to try it they're welcome to take these discs off me when I have changed them.

I'm running the stilo front discs on my 16VT but I didn't fit the stilo calipers because I didn't find any of them. BUT I found that the front calipers from Fiat ulysse, Peugeot 806 etc fit the 16VT with the 281x26 discs. They are 57mm calipers and works with the standard 16VT pads ! Calipers are from Lucas Girling also, and pad patterns are exactly the same. The only difference is the stronger caliper with larger piston. So it looks totally standard.

I think that 140 bhp JTD stilo got the same brakes.

Sounds good.

I will still check out the piston size on the Stilo.

my car has the high carbon front disc's, are the stilo disc the same? does it make much difference?

Just wonder if the stilo disc are just plain metal if some of the benefit would be lost due to this

stilo piston is 57mm also I prefered the 806 route as their calipers are very easy to find from breakers and are a direct fit. You can even keep your used pads

pad surface area does make a difference though particularly on slider style calipers.

I'm interested to know the dimensions of the pads

can't remember the ins and outs of the formulas but disc contact radius is part of it (and therefore the depth of the pad and disc surface depth is important) and for slider calipers the slider area also matters as its size is part of the effective area of the piston.


Pad sizes -
16VT pad is 130mm x53mm
Stilo pad is 150mm x 57mm

As mentioned all these caliper bits are likely to be interchangeable anyway as they are all Lucus/Girling type calipers.


BTW there are plenty of uprated Stilo Abarth discs available not just solid OE replacement discs.

16VT pads are 130x59. The length is the pad overall length excluding contact material.

Are u sure the stilo calipers are from lucas girling ? I was thinking they were from bosch. Maybe Fiat mixed the brands ?

I think it is 59mm if you measure from the absolute top to absolute bottom, but I am measuring across the surface area at the angle of the pad as it contacts the disc along a single radius point(if that makes sense) so my measurements are wrong in absolute terms but correct for any maths you would want to do on it.

I will check the branding of the caliper when I take it off on the weekend or next week. But they are still of that sort even if they are manufactured by Bosch

What I find most bizarre is that the Stilo Abarth caliper is exclusive to the car - not available on any other car AFAIK including the Alfas (which have a different caliper again).

Anyway, the objective of the exercise is to find likely upgrades to the 16VT setup and I think you have already identified one using the Stilo discs I don't even own a 16VT

It makes sense... Here is a catalog (in french sorry) thats shows pads patterns and sizes :
Oscaro car parts

Would be nice to have pics of 16VT pads, stilo pads and calipers.
Stilo abarth/JTD 140 calipers are very difficult to find unfortunately.

If the Stilo has a larger piston in the caliper then you might have to uprate the master cylinder also, the larger area of the piston will mean a greater pedal travel to get the same effort.

Why dont we all just save our pennies and buy 18" rims and a Tarox big brake upgrade

The master cylinder of 20VT isn't larger so this is not an issue. I have no problem.

The 806 calipers cost me about 50 pounds and I needed to change the discs so this was the good time for me to do this brake upgrade. It was really easy to do, a diy job.

The 57mm piston gives the same piston area as the 20VT brembos. And the 284 x 22 discs are just ridiculous regarding the weight of the car.

For information, integrale evo also got 281x26 discs but with brembos calipers.

so u stop can stop on a penny now JMA ?

whats the piston area of the 4 20VT brembo's compared to a single 57mm piston? Anyone done the calculation?

Also, having 4 seperate pistons surrounding 2 pads gives a more even braking force across the 2 pads, and more consistent application of that force. The floating caliper design tends to give inconsistent pressure which is why you find that the pads on the inside tend to wear out quicker than the outside pads (or vice versa in some designs). The size of the pads also tends to be larger with a multi piston design. The 20VT pad friction area is rectangular, not long and thin (and curved) like the above mentioned pads. When used on a 305mm disc, braking pressure will also be larger even with the same area pad (moment of force theory).

Brembo calipers use two different sized pistons to prevent equal pressure over the whole pad, the leading edge of the pad has less pressure applied to it than the trailing edge due to the smaller pistons on the leading edge.

Simma, your comparing swapping disc, caliper and pad with swapping disc, caliper, pad, driveshaft, hub, hub carrier, wheel bearings and having to change alloys.

I got my 2001 GTV 2.0 calipers (same as 16VT)with pads for 40 quid, and could've taken the discs for nothing. THat in comparison to what is about 4-500 quids worth of gear from a 20VT and a lot more on insurance besides.

Anyway if the 20VT setup is so good why did Fiat recall it
from the Alfa 147/156GTA at their cost and replace them with a 330mm setup?

I did and found that the 57mm surface area is a bit larger than the 20VT brembos. I know all the theory you are talking about but I'm really happy with my single piston floating caliper.

The brembo conversion on 16VT isn't so easy believe me. Plus this setup looks absolutely standard.

You need really big 4 pots to equal one single sliding caliper, look what bmw put on the M3. Ok not as sexy as 4 pots, but still work really well. What would be beneficial is a wider disc as john has mentioned, that why I didnt bother with 4 pots I had, disc was too thin. plus I have the bonus of smaller wheels.

Rich