Cheers mate. Certainly a great result. Had a double take when Leighton phoned me with the results as I was expecting around the 270 mark. I was lucky enough to see the motor on the rollers too as the original dyno plot was.....ahem....misplaced

I've never run any of my motors on anything less than the best fuel. It did cross my mind about using thinners but I'm not sure how the Coupe would respond. Other performance motors I've owned have responded really well and the drop in performance is very evident when you stop using them. It's pretty safe to say that all of my motors have a hard life but I'm a stickler for regular servicing using recommended fluids etc. I know the 2 previous owners kept the car in great condition and drove the car as it should be as I've done a few track days with them (one chap had a 500 bhp Saab 9-5 and the other a 500 bhp Saab 9000) so the engine should be nice and free. Goes without saying if anyone reading this is thinking about looking at a bit more shove that's safe and usable get onto Flea and he'll extract the best out of your motor (oh and rag your motor and use good fuel)

This is very true of the 20vt engine. A shorter stroke and an inlet manifold with very short runners lends itself to higher horsepower with lower torque, especially when modifiying. It's an unusual engine in this regard, certainly compared to the modern competition, where fast early torque is preferred, and generally exacerbated the further you modify.

Torque is king, yes indeed. The turbo diesel is the ultimate example of this, and one that just begs to be tuned for even more gratification. I did three last week, all different, but all just so enjoyable after the event. However, torque and horsepower are not mutually exclusive, they are linked at all times beyond the headline figure. For turbo cars we have torque in spades, and when tuning you optimise every element of the engine. For a standard car this generally means bigger gains in mid-range torque than horsepower, for heavily modified cars it will mean bigger gains in horsepower than torque. This is the nature of the beast where displacement stays the same, and engine efficiency elevates with higher revs especially where a bigger turbo is concerned. The holy grail is to achieve big early torque across a wide rpm band, that takes care of everything. This is why I developed new turbos for the Coupe.

I could read about real life tuning all day.

You haven't got a sale coming up, Leighton?

Or a 'map one turbo, map a Vis for free' offer?

If you are not in a rush I am sure we can work something out I go under the knife in two weeks for a hip replacement, so will be out of action for a while. Hoping to be back early July.

Must've worn your hip out bending under all those bonnets.
Good luck with the op.
Mobilisation post op is the key to a good recovery. Manage the pain and listen to the physios.
Are you going for a standard hip joint or an uprated one for better performance? .

Hope all goes well with the op leighton. Those wallets get real heavy at times

And far too many bloody hills!

All the best for the op!

Good luck
Your be up walking around the next day. I had my left hip done in 98 at the age of 26 after having a motorbike crash in 95. I'm still on the first one 17 years later plus still ride

That is very good to hear, pleased you are doing well with it and I hope I will likewise. I have put off for a while now not knowing the longevity of these things!

Gents - if this thread descends into another tuner v tuner bun-fight, it will undoubtedly be locked, resulting in yet another interesting and informative thread being canned due to no fault of the OP

The thread is about the BEST state of tune, not the highest....

So - in an attempt to bring it back on topic, I'll repeat what I've mentioned earlier - the nicest Coupe I've ever driven was utterly bog standard (a low-mileage Plus). The fastest I've ever driven is my own very highly modified Plus.

Therefore, the definition of "best" is surely a moving feast, depending on your needs for that particular moment.

If someone asked me to drive 500 miles on the motorway or DCs, (or 50 miles in heavy traffic) I'd have a standard Coupe (on standard wheels) every time. If someone asked me to drive 500 miles without touching a motorway or DC, I'd have a 300-ish bhp Coupe with uprated suspension and brakes. If someone asked me to drive 500 miles round Silverstone, I'd have my own mad Coupe.

Horses for courses, and I don't think there's a single answer to the question, which is why I now have an Alfa GT for the commute, and the Coupe for fun

Mod wand waved. Now, where were we? A nice chat with the OP, I believe...!

Hello all!

In my opinion in the many states of tune I had my coupe in, one of the best was possibly when I had a small turbo on a 2.4. It was in all ways better than the standard engine, more responsive, turbo came in earlier etc.

Dont mind me. I'm still getting to grips with the forum dynamics. Car still going well

I think it's quite difficult to suggest the best state of tune unless you drive them all

I love mine with a gt28rs fmic etc. pulling 358bhp 311lbs ft
Mapped by Flea really nice and smooth with good response all the way through and still fairly quick off boost! It is definitely better than the stock 20vt but there may well be a better variant between the two that I won't know about unless I drive it!

The only thing I think is the most important and probably overlooked for an everyday car is the clutch!
I like the feel of my standard clutch and don't want a paddle one so probably the best state of tune is the best you can get on the standard clutch! Well that's my oppinion!

However having said that it's difficult to resist the temptation to want more and more power as its so addictive!!

I really do think there is "best state of tune". As I said in my first post, if you take into consideration the cost, how labour intensive it is, bang per buck (bhp/torque per £££) and how reliable it is after. I think I could be around that mark now. To get my motor to 290+bhp/torque its cost £330 all in. Not a bad yeild all things considered. Having said that I think it's safe to say I'll be chasing the ponies again some time in the near future.

Hang on, most 'standard turbo remaps' will be on the standard intercooler!

Yes Ryan, that's why I said it helps to have a bigger FMIC! It's not a requirement, and not many people will go to the effort of fitting one just for a Stage 1, but if you do then all the better. Same as using a good fuel.

Is there a recommendation for a stage 1 intercooler that wouldn't comprise spool?

There used to be Pace SMIC YEARS ago but it was debated whether it was better than the standard unit at all. I think as long as it's bug enough to cool down the intake temps, its big enough to introduce more lag.

Of course, the remap would probably offset all of this if you had it done at the same time...

I got that; I just thought it should be pointed out that this set-up should probably not be compared with the rest of the standard remapped cars. Personally, I don’t it hasn’t knocked off the highest bhp’d standard car.



Reminds me of the conversation we had regarding the Mk1 Focus RS. Don’t they come with a 2.75” turbo back exhaust to start with? I know the GT28R helps them off the bat too, but it always seems that the Coupé 20vT engine has just about the worst selection of bolts on imaginable.

But that's the question really, at what point does it beome overkill and you can't map around it?

Very pleased with my new larger intercooler thanks to Leighton.

Coup seems to have a bit more power now too

It's kind of an open-ended question really. Because it would totally depend on the design the intercooler, which is an entire topic in itself.

If we talk about the ones that are commonly fitted to Coupes It's probably these "universal" ones similar to the link below:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-FRON...=item27fa7f97e4

and the "Evo 3" type ones.

When I tested one of the small intercoolers on one of my Coupes a few years ago I found the lag was minimal and was easily mapped around. Fitting a 2.5" exhaust system also had the same effect of reducing lag - but then I guess that's not really stage 1 any more! The efficiency worked out to be, 80-odd% (can't remember the exact number!) which is good - plus it also fit behind the bumper with very little cutting! So that would definitely be a good size for "stage 1", IMO.

The Evo IC on the other hand - huge and would obviously overkill for a stock Coupe! Still works of course, but just unnecessarily big.

The 2nd hand Evo 6 IC I bought from a forum member was anything but a straight fit but with some imagination a dremel and a hacksaw you can get it in. The IC, fitting kit and 180 degree silicon bend came in at under £100 so its a no brainer for me. Not sure that if it helped me reach the figures I got but it will certainly help with heat soak when doing multiple WOT pulls. After having driven the car hard since mapping there is around a chunk of 200rpm of lag. Not really noticeable tbh and the extra bhp/torque more than makes up for it.

Thanks for the link, strangely enough I've got that one in my watch list. If that's similar to one you've tried I'll take a punt on it.

I think Phil's got what I'd think to be a good state of tune. Basically just beyond standard so you get enough extra everywhere in the rev range that your car feels alive like it would on a cold crisp morning. But not far enough that other components are too fragile.

Not standard cars, but cars with standard TB28 turbos!



Yes the RS has a very good turbo as standard, coupled with an excellent chargecooler and larger bore exhaust. Only a decat needed to see 300bhp, plus a tubular manifold for 320-330bhp with my Sabre Stage 2 mapping. The engines are also good for 400bhp+ as standard!

The Coupe 20v has some very good engine parts though, good sized throttle body, excellent plenum/inlet manifold, and good cylinder head, excellent exhaust manifold (despite the cracks). All these components are fine for 500bhp which is pretty darn good for standard components!

I have the Pro Alloy FMIC with the original routing, and against the standard SMIC my full boost (17.5psi) changed from 2,400 -> 2,600 rpm in 4th and 5th. It's harder to get an accurate reading in 1st-3rd! All told barely noticeable vs standard.

Flea or Phil, were the power runs with the standard cat?

AFAIK is running a standard cat with a PowerFlow cat back exhaust.

Thanks Phil, again great results, and probably one of the "best states of tune!"