Subframe welding compared with lower brace

Has anyone done a back to back comparison between a lower brace and seam welding the subframe. I am very please with the improved feel of the handling when a lower brace is fitted, but sick and tired of bottoming out on bumpy roads. It got brought to a head today when it bottomed out on a fast B road resulting in bending both the mounting bolts. I wonder if seam welding the subframe will give similar stifness.

contact Joe at FCSS, he's done a lot of these and i'd guess is in the best position to comment

I had a lower brace and I'm in the process of going to a welded subframe.....I also believe that the inventor of the lower brace has done exactly the same.

Probably answers that one methinks

No he hasn't

Never felt the need, although I wouldn't mind finding out whether it makes any difference.

As Kayjey will testify from his quick passenger ride in mine last week, it corners fairly well with just the lower brace (and the upper brace and ARB and Eibachs and Osravs and polybushed wishbones...)

Yes +

That's funny when I made enquiries about a welded subframe I was told, quite clearly, that you had.......

I'm only a basic engineer but I'd be very surprised if even a fully welded subframe would flex less than a straight steel beam...
Also; looking at the subframe I cannot see how a more welds would make it stiffer, the flexing must be almost interely within it's U-design structure.

However, a better lower brace is not rocket science.
By streching it slightly forward and maximize the space; cutting the height of it's mounts etc. it's perfectly possible to make it flush with the undershield.
http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2374&type=picture
Well, it's actually inside the undershield;
http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2372&type=picture
Mine started out as an OMP (Alfa) brace but it's easy copied with a welder and some steel tubes etc...

i do like that Per, mine frequently catches humps/crowned roads - you should consider a group buy!

I didn't know you knew the strut brace designer at OMP Nigel

http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2374&type=picture

Looking at that image, why dont we use the exhaust mounting point as part of the brace, the bar car come from the wishbone mounting bolt as normal, then bolt to the exhaust mounting clamp.

Or design a new exhaust mounting clamp with the brace built in to it.

Is it the 4 'bolts' pointing down you mean under the downpipe? They're attached to the engine so need to move independently of the subframe unless engine was solid mounted.

I still can't understand why people are suffering from ground clearance issues

I have the lower brace AND I'm lowered on Eibachs AND I have a 3" exhaust, but I've only touched the brace once on a kerb. OK, I can't drive over the small 'pillow' type speed bumps with a wheel each side and the brace will touch the ground if I go down one of those country lanes with grass growing down the middle...

In my experience, the exhaust downpipe can be adjusted by loosening it at the turbo end and the rear mount, pushing it closer to the sump, and tightening it back up again. With the pipe out of the way, the brace can be used without spacers, which means that the brace is almost flush with the undertray - see photo below - mine was about level with the thick metal plate that covers the exhaust (although the plate was lowered by about 10mm to make room for the fat downpipe)



FWIW, there is another improvement that could be made to the brace design...

At the moment, the brace simply closes off the open end of the 'U' shape of the subframe. However, this DOESN'T prevent the subframe from twisting (ie the 'legs' of the subframe going from |_| to /_/ )

This could be solved by producing a brace that triangulates by using the rear wishbone mountings - something like this shape...

Duh, of course it is, for some reason I thought it was part of the chassis? Forget my idea, it wont work

Nigel,
Having torn out my wishbone mounting bolts due to the lower brace, it would always worry me that a similar thing would happen again. Plus, the local council seem to favour the centre speed humps that the car straddles, it would be a constant nightmare trying to navigate around them, there's even one right outside my drive!

Yes Jimbo and this was due to the work of fitting it, I had everything removed there.




Interesting thought, also the actual subframe mounting to the chassi is something to better, if one should believe Alfa Romeo.. Maybe you already know; I'm in the process of mounting these braces from an old GTV:

http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2472&type=picture