Berlin xmas market

Some fine soul drove a truck into the xmas market on the kudamm tonight; killed nine and injured dozens... sometimes I despair.

(As it happened we were with granddaughter at a different market; we're fine).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38373867

Shocking and tragic news

The wife, her 3 sisters and mother were at that very market over a 3 day day visit last week!

Truly awful (yet again!)

I wonder how this will affect the voters in their elections next year?

Tragic and depressing

My wife and I have been to that market in the past.

We usually stayed in the Fruhling am Zoo hotel about 200 metres away from there.

let them rove round Europe and this is what you get .........no control over these events, ask the french.

Ah! Another observer unable to differentiate between the actions of a single deranged individual, and the society of which he claims membership.

Logic 101: All cats are mammals. Aristotle is a mammal. Therefore, Aristotle is a cat.

Doh...

Normally these days I tend to keep away from discussions such as this. Obviously tragic, & who/what/in the name of, or what ever, this could be the work of any deranged individual who for various reasons sees this as a way of making a mark/stand for whatever they believe in.

Was listening to a radio discussion some time ago about so called terrorists & what was turning up more often than not was pathetic people who committed these horrible atrocities. Some were just looking for excitement & this sort of thing fitted the bill, obviously there was more to this & some religious nonsense was in the mix as well. Most were single men who were working alone tended to be young, unemployed, fed up with life in general & spent a lot of time on the net, obviously being brainwashed by the vile spiel being trotted out in the name of some geezer who supposedly lived a long time ago & for some reason had the answer to everything

Just to add, most of these nutters are living in the country where these tragic events happen. Take a look at Britain. Similar things happened here with bombings & attacks were generally carried out with home grown nutters.

There was a really interesting programme on the radio a few months ago that explored why so many people trained as engineers ended up being radicalised. The guy doing the research suggested that it was because they worked hard to get qualified only to be thwarted by the lack of opportunities. Their drive then got channelled into bad stuff (I'm simplifying the story massively).

I heard the same program (article?) - but one point made was not that so many engineers per se ended up as radicals but that so many radicals had engineering degrees.

Not *quite* the same thing, but if you're already vaguely radical, having an engineering qualification is a bad sign...

That's because engineers are doers, not dreamers.

Did I hear correctly today that they found the Tunisian suspect's wallet and ID in the cab of the truck?

Isn't that a little bit convenient?

And his fingerprints too.

I suspect he wants to be caught and go out in a violent confrontation to ensure his martyrdom.

Who knows what goes on in a deranged mind?

Sounds like the cuplrit was located in Italy and is now one ex-maniac.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38415287

They found the Nice attackers ID in the truck he used, too. Perhaps it's deliberate - or maybe to misdirect the police...

Or perhaps as I said last night a couple of posts up.

Indeed, I read your post, Pete, I was just offering an alternative view.

Not a brilliant misdirection if the suspect, when located a country away, pulls a gun on a police check and gets himself all shot dead.

Or, a particularly complicated way of assassinating someone?

I meant misdirection toward the ID owner, away from some other culprit.

I read that the suspect was arrested and served time in Italy in 2011 because of his violent behaviour then deported after serving his sentence. You would think Interpol would have had him on a watch list so other eu members had a heads up.

Only if you are ignorant of the fact that most other countries require people to carry ID around with them, so there is absolutely nothing strange or suspicious about finding ID at the scenes of crimes

I guess we're aware of that very pertinent fact Signor A, but I have to agree with the other comments about actually "leaving" it at the SOTC - after all the detailed planning it seems strange and over-sloppy! However I might guess that you have enough preofessional experience to know more of what goes on "behind the scenes" than us men-in-the-street.......

Oh and hopefully if you get coupe-bound again this year we can all have the pleasure of meeting up with another coopster on our North of Scotland Tour?

Whilst it is common knowledge that most other countries require people to carry ID.

Seeing as it was a criminal act then yes I would think it is strange and suspicious in leaving ID at the crime scene.

Ah but it's the law that, when you break the law, you have valid ID

Otherwise, you can't have broken the law. It's very simple.

Yes, I just found it odd that it was left there given that the suspect then fled.

If he wanted to be a martyr then I would have expected (given other recent attacks) a bomb vest or an assault rifle and for the perpetrator to have gone out in a hail of bullets. In that scenario, leaving the ID seems to make sense. "I believe in X and I am proud of my actions, I want you to know who I am and what I did."

But if he wanted to get away then leaving the ID behind seems very sloppy, especially for a group we're told are highly organised and well funded.

But there's loads of assumptions I'm making and we have no real idea of what's gone on.

He could have had every intention of martyrdom and then got cold feet.

He could just be a very amateur lone wolf who likes the sound of Isis and managed to steal a truck.

IT strikes me that martyrdom is probably not to be expected at the initial attack; although the German police are armed there were only one or two around the market we were at, and to be honest even a hail of machine gun bullets isn't going to stop forty tons of steel.

But even considering how allegedly well planned this little jaunt was - and I cheerfully admit I have only the same information as the rest of you with regards to that - the culprit obviously hasn't done this sort of thing before, was in a cab with someone he'd attempted to murder not fifteen minutes before, was probably rattled as hell, and just wanted out. He's also probably not the brightest light in the shop, either; and it's unlikely that he's had any special mastermind training for this attack... more likely 'sounds like a good idea, old chap, have a go by all means' but I'd guess most likely someone who's basically got a huge chip on his shoulder who's decided that he's on Isis's side.