Urgent:2004 E320 CDI Estate buying advice!

We are looking at buying a car for a trip back to the UK in January and this Mercedes E320 CDI AvantGarde Estate is listed on eBay.

For various reasons, we need it to be a UK registered taxed and tested car and this fits the bill perfectly as a comfortable load lugger. There aren't many cars round here like this, as you'll appreciate!

The car is only about 15 miles from here, so I'm hoping to go and have a look at it.

There are only 2 days left on the auction, so I need to make the best quick decision about it that I can.

What should I look for and what questions should I ask?

The mileage isn't mentioned in the advert and the seller has obviously been dealing a bit based on his history. I guess it will be inter-galactic, but on autotrader similar age/spec cars are going for £4k+

Any tips...?

Muchas gracias!

Update: I've had a reply to my email:

"The miles on the Mercedes is 214,thousand has full merc history so genuine,immaculate car,no issues all good"

So, 214,000 miles.

Sh4g, marry, avoid?

Is it road taxed now Jim? Cant see a tax disc. So will you need the log book in your name to tax it? I presume you will register it to a UK address?

Looks tidy,but the miles are high.

There is currently no tax on it, but the owner is flying to the UK tomorrow and will tax it if required.

I've been looking into the Valeo radiator problem, but if this has a FMBSH, then it should have been rectified (water contamination of the gearbox lubricant - very expensive!).

Mileage is as high as I expected, but depends what it goes for, I suppose...

I did not know of the rad problem on these.
My 2.7 crd auto 4x4 was staying in a lower gear on the odd time.

I changed the gearbox oil and its filter and all has been well.
Its my first Mercedes and i must say i have enjoyed it and is a solid car (2001). Although i am just about to sell it.

The guy is bringing it round tomorrow morning so I can have a look.

It's all a bit rapid and we may not even bid on it, but I'll feel happier doing so if we have at least seen it...

If you still have time, check through the Honest John list for the relevant weak points of that model. Some will not be relevant, some often appear to be "one offs", others are more significant and you should try and get a better feel for the state of the actual car:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mercedes-benz/e-class-w211-2002/?section=good

They have just changed the rules Jim so you can't transfer UK tax to a new owner any more so you would have to tax it for when you arrive in the UK.

You can do so on line before you set off if you have it insured with a UK insurance company. MOT is on line anyway.

Thanks Pete, if we buy it, we would have to tax it, so I won't ask the seller to do it. I hadn't spotted that change. Nice little earner for the exchequer...

Thanks neil_r, I had a brief look at Honest John yesterday and PistonHeads and MBowners or whatever it's called...!

My feeling is that it'll go for more than I want to pay, but we'll see.

It looks like it should not reach 3500 UKP, judging from the UK prices but RHD and Spain may be different, espcially as it is already at 2800 Pounds. RHD in Germany rarely fetches LHD prices.

However, if it saves you flying home just to buy a car, ...

Good luck anyway

The seller brought the car round this morning. Cosmetically, it's fine - 2 shopping trolley dings, an inch of chrome off the bumper insert and slightly frosted headlamps the only external blemishes. Inside, the driver's seat bolster has worn through a bit and the colour has been rubbed off the air vent control wheels, other than that, fine.
We went for a 20 minute test drive, on urban (with speed bumps!) and rural roads and motorway and it handled it all quietly and smoothly, including a bit of kick-down and some hard braking. The tip-tronic worked ok too. No COMAND system though...
The car has full Merc service history up to 189,000 and lots of bills to show thorough attention to replacement parts, etc. after that mileage there are other bills from non-Mercedes garages and the latest MOT with no advisories.

So, I've bought it for £3600, including 2 new rear tyres and a front brake sensor.
I looked at the rad to try to work out if it was vulnerable to the ATF contamination issue, but couldn't see any labelling on it. The oil cooler was clearly BEHR, but no idea if the rad was too.

Anyway, I think it will do what we want as long as it doesn't break!

Thanks everyone for your help and advice.

Cool. That is a result!

Let's hope so! The ample service history and bills convinced me, but you never know. At least the price was reasonable so if it goes T-U, we won't have lost too much. As long as we get European recovery and get it back to the UK, we can sell it for parts if necessary!
And if it goes well, maybe we'll keep it...

It certainly sounds like it is not a collection of half-working bits! The owner maybe relied on it and kept it well maintained and repaired. Hopefully it turns out to be a solid piece of kit. It is definitely the best looking of the E-Class models.

Do you need LHD headlights Jim?

I don't, Joe. The seller brought the vehicle over himself and it has adjustable "European" ones, suitable for use in either location. The car won't be staying in Spain after we drive it back, so UK ones will be more sensible...

Frustrating! We now have a two week wait while the seller is away before we can take delivery of our new wheels!
One thing it has is some weird kind of phone interface device that I *think* is a Viseeo MB-2 bluetooth adapter, but I'm not sure. If it is, I'll have to work out if it will connect to our phones.

I was wondering if you had already got the car!

I see my next potential XK in two weeks, if it is still for sale. This purchase is going to be a long winded process I fear and, naturally, I have zero patience!

Now that I would get much more excited about!

A new car is always exciting!

But the XK project has its down sides when the list of available cars is 80% black with black interior and all at unrealistic prices, 200km or more from where I live, it is hard to get really excited. Just because the original list price was eye-watering does not mean that the second hand price has to be over-inflated, especially in a stagnant market. Eventually, the dealer decides to get shot of the car and lists it at the real market level. One has to then be quick to get it. I missed one a couple of weeks ago that was probably perfect. Who knows if another such specimen will appear in the near future. There is a black XKR with "caramel" interior that I have my eye on. Too expensive at the moment but might drop a bit before the winter sets in. Black has grown on me or I have become resigned to the fact that if I rule out black, I may never get one!

On the other hand, I've been told by MrsC that anything other than black (like, for instance, this E320) is a compromise!
Silver is apparently the work of Beelzebub (tricky when looking at big German barges.)
I'd have a problem with caramel or tan interior, but for some reason, car makers seem to think it's "sophisticated". Unlike the eyesore that is BMW red.
Having said that, I'd put up with most things for an XKR - good luck with your quest!

Ha Ha! It is good that we are generally all different.

I have a silver 20V with tan leather - had it for 17 years now. Most people questioned my choice after I told them what I had ordered. That year, the Pinifarina stand at the Frankfurt motor show had Ferarris, Fiat Coupe, Peugeot 406 Coupe and other cars that they had designed/were building, and all were in silver with tan. Sometimes the not obvious is actually rather nice

My S-Type is blue with cream interior, also works.

The next XKR to see is this one:
http://avalon-muenchen.de/go.to/modix/3,1,p57639v/gebrauchtwagen.html?max=10&manufacturer=25&model=517&search_vehicles=1&action=notepad&notepad1=s17tl46&notepad2=kfz_gruppe&request_uid=yes&request_uid=yes

Ha! Don't think that combo would work in our family - although my 16VT was silver. I don't mind cream so much at all.

That XK is lovely, maybe caramel can work...!

Maybe black can work too

Does anyone know anything about the Viseeo Bluetooth adapter in these cars? It mimics the old Nokia phones that Merc. fitted a cradle for.

I have no experience of it but the following may be of interest (you have probably already found it):

Model Description:
http://www.viseeostore.com/products/mercedes-benz/viseeo-mbu-3000.html

Tech Support:
http://www.viseeostore.com/viseeo-mbu-1000-technical-faq.html

Thanks Neil, I've been all over tinterweb looking at the things. Unfortunately, I don't know which model is fitted, though I suspect the 1000. It seems I'll just have to be patient. Not a strong point!

I suspect the 1000 too as it was about at the right time. Sorry for the 3000 link. I meant the 1000. If it is it looks quite simple. There are not too many complaint threads either, so it appears to be relatively reliable.

I hope so. I think I might need to get a firmware upgrade kit (essentially a proprietary lead), but I won't know for another week...!

Having not owned a vehicle of any sort for 6 months and nothing remotely interesting since selling the 530d in 2011, I am disproportionately keen to get my hands on what is - if I'm honest - a risky 10-year-old barge!
I have even looked at DTUK diesel tuning boxes, despite knowing full well the folly of remapping a car that has been to the edge of the galaxy and back.

I am a caraholic.

Enjoy it Jim, looks in good nick and these Mercs are in demand because they can do big miles.
I went in one in Greece that had huge miles on it, lovely and comfortable and still looked nice.

"... has been to the edge of the galaxy and back."

Probably because it is how the designers wanted it to be. Increase the load on components and they last less long. I'm a pessimist and so leave things standard. Also why I did not buy the 20VT all those years ago. The 20V has been pretty reliable and cost very little along the way. Hopefully the Merc will get to another edge of the galaxy and back too

I completely agree with you, neil, it would be a ludicrous thing to do; I was just observing in myself the urge for MORE POWER - because I could, not because I should!

Hopefully getting the car this afternoon. Assuming all is in order, I'll then have to insure it and tax it.
There's a couple of things I want to check and I wondered exactly what information the VIN can give me (apart from when/where it was built, etc. will it tell me the original spec or is that only decided post manufacture?

You should be able to get the full spec from the VIN. The specifications will be nailed down before it goes on track to be built. And regardless the manufacturer will keep a record of the car which can be cross checked.

That's good news. Thanks szkom!

Well, did you get it??

Did I bo££ox! Waited all day yesterday, getting increasingly frustrated! The garage fitting the tyres took longer than expected, which meant the seller ran out of time as he had to pick up his wife, so I'm sat here waiting again this morning! Should be here within the hour...

It's now parked outside - taxed and insured...!


I've had a quick look round and although it's obviously a vehicle with a LOT of miles on it (shiny surfaces, worn buttons on the steering wheel and vent thumbwheels), it seems to go, stop and steer as you'd hope.

I still haven't been able to ascertain (even with a full VIN look-up) whether or not it has the dodgy Valeo radiator that is prone to leak coolant into the automatic transmission fluid. Part of me says that as it's done so many miles, if it was going to leak it would have done by now; the other part doesn't want the transmission to eat itself on a foggy sub-zero autoroute on New Year's Eve.
The problem is that with this mileage, there are potentially dozens of (fairly costly) ways our journey could end, so why spend £300 trying to prevent just one of them?

The phone adapter is the Viseeo MB-1000 as neil_r suspected. I'm going to try it out and see if I can pair my phone with it. I'm also wondering if it can be used to pair with an ipad and play music or possibly do so from the phone itself. This is because the stereo is the basic Audio 20, with no CD changer, no MP3 capability and no Aux. input. I have a Belkin tunecast, which could be pressed into service, but would prefer a solution that doesn't hog the charger socket (needed for the SatNav).

It seems to have the heated/ventilated dynamic seats, but in my brief drive so far, I couldn't feel any refreshing cool air coming through the driver's seat or feel any relaxing massage!

I don't think the parking sensors are worth a damn, but when were they ever on cars of this vintage? Our 530d had them, but they were hopeless.


The not-so-good bits I've noticed so far in no particular order (and I appreciate that these are not deal-breakers!):

• Driver's mirror does not fold without a helping hand to engage the gear at first
  
• Catch to open armrest storage compartment is broken and comes off
  
• Rear wiper blade knackered
  
• Aircon not very cool (bit of a problem here!)
  
• Headlights almost opaque
  
• Warning triangle and fire extinguisher missing
  
• Driver's seat bolster ripped
  

I would be out sitting in it playing with the various toys, but our house is south-facing and it's about 30 degrees out there.

I'm off to try and find a Spanish version of Halfords in a minute for all the usual stuff. It seems that the Sylvania headlight restoration kit is the one to go for. Or does someone know better?

I'll post a few pics eventually, but it's really not that exciting to anyone else I wouldn't think!

Over here in Azerbaijan, there are Mercs with 350,000 and more miles on them. Still going! These guys don't worry about mileage at all......

Pics please

It seems that Merc is the high-mileage king, but it's not in my nature to be overly optimistic!

Does anyone have any headlight restoration recommendations? My search was fruitless...

Pics will follow, but I'd really like to wash it first and I won't have time for a while...

What are the headlights made from Jim? I'm guessing plastic if they have gone as cloudy as an old dogs eyes?

Some ultra fine wet and dry works well before using the polishing kits, I think around 3000 would be ok.

They are plastic, Jim; I'd guess polycarbonate? A trawl around the internet reveals that increasingly fine wet and dry is what the kits do, but with a product to strip off the original lacquer (hard to remove evenly just using abrasives) and a finishing sealant.
I'd imagine it's an issue in your neck of the woods too?

The next thing I need to sort is the Viseeo MB-1000 Bluetooth adapter. In the car, fitted into the cradle, the unit is dead as a dodo. Following advice from a Merc forum, I plugged it in to an old Nokia charger (the unit mimics a Nokia 6310i) and - LO! it is alive. Apparently, the connectors in the cradle are notoriously dodgy, so what is the best way to clean them and/or ensure good connections? I don't have any acetone, but would something like nail varnish remover do a job?

Thanks, as ever!

Try meths to strip off the original coating. I've used it on 2 sets of coupe lights.

Have a read of this thread too.

Thanks Pete - fine advice. I'll see if Caroline has any meths lying around...

Ohhhhh goodie. A Jim Clennell restoration project

Should keep us entertained over the winter months.

And I noticed you slipped a bit in about the temperature again!

Bezzer, I'm shortly going to be shivering along with the rest of you, so give me my (literal) moment in the sun! (About 22 degrees right now, looking like another scorcher!)

To be honest, I'm not going to do very much at all to the car, especially if it involves spending money (which I don't have!)

The headlights are hilariously hazy and with xenons, it must be infuriating for oncoming drivers, let alone hopeless for seeing where you're going! As I have some autosol, I think that's worth a shout.
The phone gadget is annoying, but really not a problem in the grand scheme of things. I tried to find the fuse box this morning, but if it really is on the driver's side dash end, it's very securely locked in!
I tried cleaning the contacts, but no dice. If the power supply is functioning then I'll leave it (for now).

I'll do my best to keep you entertained, of course!

One of these may overcome your power socket hogging problem.

Thanks Bezzer; like the classy use of "fag lighter"!

Yes it's rather common isn't it.

How about this one instead. It does have the Merc 'look'

Does it come with its own trailer?!

Bugger!

There's an error code on the OBC that the seller assured me was due to his changing the brake wear sensor. The disks were skimmed and the pads changed about 20k ago and still show well over 50% wear and the sensor wires looked dodgy, so he swapped them before bringing the car to me. Only it hasn't gone away after being hooked up to the latest Merc OBD. The bloke at the garage said it's an error connected to the Mercedes Sensotronic Brake Control. According to Wikipedia, this complex and somewhat troublesome system caused a huge recall in 2004/5 and was discontinued on the E-Class after 2006 as it proved too expensive to re-engineer for high-volume models.
Whatever the background, this one has flagged an error. The seller has been keen to emphasize that he will get it fixed at his expense, which is good, but it's a bit of a pain.

My understanding is that the system fails safe and can be operated perfectly well when not functioning, but I'd much rather get it sorted ASAP. If it affected the courtesy lights or the heating I'd be more laid back about it, but you don't f**k with the brakes!

A bit more research reveals that there was a 10-year FOC replacement of the SBC pump (which it seems is the part that is giving rise to the warning). Is there any way I can tell if the pump has already been changed? The car has a very extensive service history, lots of it MB, but nothing I can see. I ask because as the car was first registered in May 2004, it is now 5 months outside that 10-year period.
However, if the pump has already been replaced, I'd have thought the replacement would still fall within the timescale. Probably. If they are still doing it. Either way, it's not going to be me that pays, but it would be good to know. What about if I phone a UK Benz main dealer? Will they be able to tell from the VIN?

I'm guessing it was a UK supplied car. MB UK should know which recalls were done on every car. I would contact them directly.

That is my feeling... I wonder whether there is a specific number for Mercedes UK. I'll go and look!

Very helpful chap at MBUK confirmed that the original SBC unit was changed under the recall. The bad news is that no further replacement or remedial work will be entertained after the issue has been fixed.

Which may be good news, as it may indicate a more trivial problem...

Had a go at the headlights today, with mixed success. Despite Petep's tip about meths, it didn't seem to soften the yellowed lacquer layer, so I went for the emery paper.
I used 180 followed by 280, then 600, before several applications of Autosol, buffed with a lambswool wheel on my drill.

They are still slightly hazy, at least partly due to my sanding. I can see it will be necessary to revisit this, but at least they are better than before.

You might need to sand them with 800 or even 1000 before polishing them up Jim.

Yup, I can see that now. The one that I did just with autosol came up better than the ones I gave too much of a scratching too!
You live and learn, I'll have another go with some finer paper.

Lazy folding mirror was something I had on my 2008 model. Frankly I've never bothered about them and I've noticed that Merc has switched off the folding as the car is locked as the default in my current 13-model.

It's a shame it doesn't have full MB service history as it would still be covered by their free recovery service. It's worth checking Merc for any parts you need as they discount them for cars over a certain age. My experience is that I'm nearly always astonished by Merc prices: either because they're so high or so low. It's ALWAYS worth checking: I nearly pulled the trigger on a part (rear wiper motor) from a breaker but thought I'd check with Merc and found it it was actual cheaper to buy the part new from them.

Reminds me, Jim: before you get back to the salty roads of Blighty, put a big splodge of grease or Vaseline around the rear wiper shaft where it enters the housing. That should stop salty water running down there. The irony is that the Merc wiper is so well made that, if that shaft corrodes, it's impossible to get out. The exact issue occurred on my Alfa 156 and the cheap motor on there was easy to pull apart.

Thanks for the advice, MRS. I'm hoping to get the brake fault diagnosed either today or on Monday at either Bosch or Mercedes. My understanding is that as it has been recalled and the original unit replaced, it should revert to a "normal" (non electronically-assisted) braking system if it fails and be safe to drive. There is also apparently a use-count trigger, which would seem likely on a vehicle with the miles mine has. The error is just that, not a warning, so I'll still drive it (carefully) until it is fixed.

I'll take a look at the rear wiper, but the car has only been in sunny climes for 6 months, so the previous ten years may have rendered your tip too late!

You don't happen to know where the fuse is for the phone cradle, do you? I can't find reference to it anywhere...

Is the rear wiper motor still working, Jim? If it is, I'd oil the shaft liberally for a few days with a very light/penetrating oil to stop any corrosion that might be there. Then apply grease to seal.

No - I don't know where it is. Are all the fuses in the main fuse centre ok?

The rear wiper works, I'll stick some WD40 down it! I think I've got some silicon grease somewhere too. Thanks for the advice!

The trouble is, there are at least 2 major fuseboxes, plus a couple of "sub" ones. And nothing is labelled as "phone", so it must either have a separate in-line fuse (my hunch) or piggy back on the audio or 12V socket or something.

http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/servle...omp.%20Left.pdf

F55 on here???

Egad Sir, you have found it! I've never seen THAT printed sheet before; I'll go and have a look right now.

Thanks, MRS!

Meh. (Un)fortunately, the fuse is in good health!

Shame, Jim. Are you sure there's no power at the connector or just hoping that was the issue? Is there not BT with the car? I've only ever used the lead to charge with simply because it's tucked in that console. I don't know when BT was standard though

I haven't tested it with the multimeter yet - that's the next thing, but if you plug in the MBU-1000 to a Nokia charger, it lights up, whereas it remains resolutely blank when seated on the cradle.

No standard Bluetooth to my knowledge, although there may be some infuriating sub-menu that I need to turn it on with...

More tinkering ahead, I fear!

Mercs are good for ease of use. My last 2 have had COMAND which makes things like BT trivial.

There isn't a menu to let it know you are using the cradle is there?

There is a "NO PHONE"message on the OBC display on the speedo when you cycle through and the same message is displayed on the head unit when you press the phone buttons. Suggests it's not detecting it for one reason or another...

I just had this reply on the MBClubUK forum:

"Have you checked if the phone control unit is still present and connected to the fibre ring? Power to the cradle comes via the control unit, check that fuse too."

But I don't really understand what it means. What is the phone control unit and why would it be removed?

So, multimeter says "no". No voltage from the "charge" pins on the cradle.

The question is, is it broken, fused, disconnected or switched off...?

Hmm - I know nothing about the phone control unit. I'm at the airport now so not great for googling but, if you're still stuck, I'll have a root around tonight

That's very kind; I'm not sure how much further I'm going to get on my own. I'm hoping to slip in a crafty additional question when the car goes for the brake check...
Please don't disrupt your weekend over it - you've helped plenty already!

No problem, Jim. Did you see this thread?

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/electronics/102372-new-member-w211-phone-no-phone.html

Sounded similar to your issues

That made me smile.

I love this thread!

Glad to keep you amused, as always, bezzer!

MRS - I did see that thread, but for some reason, I passed over it. I don't know where the Nokia Control Unit is in the estate, unless it's among the fuses and the (empty) rack for a SatNav/DVD?

Well, I found it!

If you fold the rear seats forward and remove the sort of hollow storage bin thing, there is an extra panel of carpet that you can unclip and slide out. Under it is some foam insulation and under that are a number of "modules":





And



The first is clearly the Nokia control module, the second is the "hands-free controller" and the last one looks like an antenna controller of some sort and is called a"dual band compensator".

So, it has the right bits. The question is do they work?

Ah - cool. It all looks very "Mercedes". I guess the antenna thing basically gives the phone an external aerial. I suppose you need to check they have juice and the fuse isn't popped for that.

I haven't got a hope of tracking the wiring to find the fuse, but I think there's a clear power cable, so I'll see if it's got anything going to it.
That thread suggested that taking the fuse out for 20 mins and replacing it might help to reset the module, but it sounds like wishful thinking to me!
If the unit is dead, it looks like they are under £50 on eBay.

Is there a lead you can unplug instead, Jim

Yeah, there seems to be a twin orange lead going to a two-pin socket on the unit. It also seems to daisy chain to the other two modules and I suspect it's providing power. The other connector is a great deal more complicated, though of course the two pin could be something else entirely and the power might be a simple pin in the other block...

Hmmm! The thick plottens. It seems that all the interactive bits (phone, TV, audio, SatNav, voice control, etc) are connected on a fibre ring system called MOST. That is now what I think the orange twin cable is.

Yes - that's what I figured that was when you mentioned about daisy-chain. It's great because all the in-car systems work seamlessly together ( in massive contrast to that which I had in my MiTo)

I'm sure they would all work seamlessly - as long as I can get them to work at all. I think I'm reaching the limit of my skills...

I'm just not sure how to determine whether any of the modules are faulty and if so, which. I think a trip to a STAR specialist is inevitable.

And another thing...

I may inadvertently have mentioned that the weather here is rather warm, which it is (just back from a swim in the sea and an hour on the beach. Not bad for November...), but the temperature gauge on the Merc takes quite a time to reach anywhere near 80 degrees and never seems to exceed that.
There seems to be some thought that the thermostats on these cars are prone to failure; should I be worried?

Get it warm and stick the heating on full and go for a drive at midday Jim That should tell you all you need to know. Change it mate if its in any doubt though due to the long drive in January.

Apart from being highly amusing for everyone else and great for my temporary weight-loss programme, is there a serious point to doing the turn up the heating thing?!

No i doubt it Jim. I imagine it would be best to post the question on the Merc forum. Maybe its a known thing about the low/slow temps.

Turning into a bit of a pantomime over the "Service brake!" warning. The seller seems to think he's a bit of a big shot with lots of contacts, but nobody seems to want to run the STAR diagnostics for him as a favour. I've ended up telling him to take it to the Merc. main dealer and I'll go halves with him for the cost of the diagnosis.
I think I know more about the car than he does now, having spoken to Mercedes in the UK and got the full read out from the VIN.
I just want to get it sorted now as I'm not happy driving round with a "Look out, there's a problem with your brakes!" issue hanging over us.
Booked in for 9am tomorrow. Hopefully find out about the MOST ring fault too.

Brake issue all sorted. The warning indicator for the brakes, relating to the SBC (Servotronic Brake Controller) has been reset by an independent Mercedes garage. Merc will only replace the unit (€600 from Bosch, who make them, or over £1000 from Mercedes plus fitting). The light is activated by the number of times the brakes are applied (rather a lot in a car with over 300,000km on the clock) and as Mercedes themselves told me, they have no information to suggest that the re-engineered part installed on recall will fail again. This added to the information that if the system does fail, it just operates like a normal servo-assisted braking system, means that I'm as happy as I'm going to be with the situation. Even if it cost me half the €500 bill to reset the system.
No info on the phone setup though...