4wd-coupe

its not on my list,but when i run out of otherthings to do who no's?
someone on here had a 16vt 400bhp project with 4wd but i think he give up on 4wd in the end.
how much would it cost and has it been done before?
its not on my list but this does intrest me
thanks

S E A R C H function is great there been alot of posts regarding this buddy do a search and read through them.

cheers,i take a look later

If you mean me, it wasn't a 4wd drive conversion, it was fitting the 6 speed gearbox from the 20vt which i gave up on

oh sorry buddy
did you get the 4wd done?
or wasnt you doing it in first place?

to quote the above post

i think hes refering to Kenneth

This Thread

i've not kept up with the whole thread so i may be wrong

Ninja

Fiat Coupe 4x4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6vjJs-ddQM&feature=related

from someone who went the 4wd route with his Lancia Y10, I have only one comment and its not meant to be rude, just a reality check

if you have to ask what its going to cost, you probably can't afford it. That type of project is only going to be achieved by those blessed with the skill and facilities to do EVERYTHING themselves, or those with an open chequebook

i wouldnt attempt it mysaelf,if i was gonna do it and i havnt said i plan to,i would pay a proffeanal to do it.
id love it but it will cost to much and who's to say it wont have problems when its done?
wouldnt mind going in some-ones who has done it.
if i was filthy rich id do it put i dont think its for me tho

Ok, i am doing this project, and i am a normaly IT guy, and it is not very exspensive if..... You do the job itself, ofcourse it takes a lot of times, and you do also have to search a lot to know what part to use, and so on.

I think the forum would appreciate a blow by blow account as you progress - with lots of pictures! A sort of instruction manual

What ever happened to that guy who was going to make a 20vt 4x4?

I seem to recall a thread where he was polling whether to do a 16v or 20v conversion, and then do a how-to type thing for it.

...a how-to 4x4 Coupe guide would be most excellent !

I think that that would be something of a thesis!

yea,your right that would go perfect in the how to guides
good call buddy

There are a few difficulty guides in the how-to section;
"Easy" , "Intermediate", "Expert" and "Professional".

I reckon a how-to guide for a 4x4 conversion on a 20vt would could under the category "HERO"

The hardest bit is finding a donor car for the 4x4 running gear.

No one should break a 155 Q4 unless it's in a really bad way, Dedra Integrales were never imported so the only option there is to find one in Europe and bring it over.

could you not use the running gear from a delta?

You could, but it wont be a direct fit and require a lot of welding / customisation, where as the dedra and alfa 155, share the same floorpan as the coupe, so you can pretty much just bolt it in

sounds like its really technical,im not skiller enough to do it myself and to pay i think it would cost a bomb
did seee a vuid of 4wd coupe on youtube
anyone else seen it?

ahhh now i see!!!

well the 155 is rocking horse.... as is the dedra.

the only thing i cant rap my head around is the gear box.

would you use the coupe 20vt engine ? also what gear box would you use?

I'm pretty sure this has all been covered else where.

It's not such a big job to use a 16vt, but a 20vt would take a lot more work - I believe the engine needs to be moved slightly to make everything mate up.

It has been done been done and I believe a friend of a friend (the guys that did the initial conversion on my car) are trying to do a 20vt but I haven't heard any news recently.

I did a 4x4 conversion with a 20VT.
It is not as heavy as many people think!
Biggest problem is:
- the oil sump... you need to modify the original oil sump - we cut away some parts from the original one and welded it again... this was a sh... job!
- a tank: you have to cut away the spare tyre boot. I installed a selfmade tank - but there are some older rare Delta 2 with a tank, which matches to the coupe (you need one which can be placed after rear axle).
- a new downpipe + exhaust - I welded a custom part.
The other parts are almost "plug in"
The engine moves about 1,25cm towards the right (then there is no space between the frame carrier and engine any more)...
The original engine mounts will do this little way.
Then you have to use the Integrale gearbox (fits perfectly to the engine) with the tranfer box and the original transfer box mount from the Dedra/Q4
To get the gearbox fitted you will have to use the gear box cover + mount from the 5-gear 20VT.
Some minor modifications have to be done to get all fitted...but not great...you need a good mechanic...
The complete rear axle will fit per drag and drop... you will need spacers, because the rear axle of 155 Q4 / Dedra is smaller than Fiat Coupe.
You can use a Dedra Integrale (advantage: longer gear ratio - the Alfa Q4 gear ratio is too short) or a Alfa 155Q4 as "donor"-car
advantage Q4:
- a real Torsen differential as rear axle
- power 47% in the front / 53% in the rear towards 54%/46% (Dedra)

These cars become broken very often meanwhile - you get the parts, you will need, for a small amount...

I also realized, that with some bigger modifications it should be possible to use the 6th gear box for the 4x4 - the 6th gear box includes an adaptor for the 4x4 main differential.
Another number of crown gear teeth is the only problem...

Juergen

right...

very impressive!!
some thing i would love to do but cant afford it lol

any clips of your motor in motion?

There is one been made as we speak in Israel,big turbo and all-so some real weight saving-piu bumper'bonet and tail bonet made of carbon, 10 pot 340 mm brakes wooo...

My project is similar...
- 2,4l engine from Barbz
- big valve head additionally ported from previous F1-engine- builder Hartmut Lohmann (grinding shop for cylinder head BMW Formula One and optimizing of rods), Ferrea valves
- complete inlet system (plenum etc.) ported by hartmut as well
- C&B cams
- Big Garret IC rated for 600HP
- 4" inlet
- KMS free programmable ECU
- custom made manifold (Cufaro Racing) with T3 flange
- custom made dual flow exhaust with 3x63mm into 3" at the end
- GT3082R with TIAL 44mm
- streghtened Dedra Integrale Box with main differential from a Delta Integrale EVO for a power distribution of 47% front / 53% rear
- Dual paddle clutch with very light flywheel (about 4,5kg) from Cufaro Racing
- complete Alfa Q4 4x4 drive train
- 19" Superleggera III alloys with 245/30 tires for a minimum of weight (21,8kg for the complete wheel - not bad for 19" and 245)
- D2 coilovers
- D2 8pot brake with 356mm in the front, Tarox 300mm brake conversion in the rear.
- aimed goal with a compression ratio of about 8,5:1: 550 - 600HP
First driving experiences were very very impressive... a lot of boost below 3000rpm, after a short acceleration the car jackknifed.
Unfortunately we still could not test the monster fully - there is still a lot of snow (and salt :-( ) on the streets in my region...
This time we try to build a diffusor to get more weight to the rear axle.
Next will be a lighter bonnet to save weight...
Juergen

Any pics or specs on this car??

http://www.gmx.de/mc/u4qYMOa9cjyKB2V4Q28buk3evTOFeZ

Button "GMX MediaCenter starten"

Juergen

Looking forward to hearing reports on it when the weather is better. It's going to be awesome!!

Very impressive awsome job, more pic`s and vids pls

Holy shit we have new leader...

this is brilliant, thank you so much for the info!

Absolutely - would love to see it over here for TOTB! Do you think we could sneak it into the FWD class?

ha ha.. it would be funny to see looks on judges faces after the first start

maybe ill give it a go when there's nothing else to do in my project,but that wont be a for long.
would be cool tho, id love to drive a 4wd coupe,60 rear,40 front round a track still get the kickout at the rear but still grip at the front.cool
one of the only things that i thibk the coupe should of had as option, scoobys and that are great for the corners,alll 4wd's are.

Wow that is very impressive.

Juergen a diffuser wont help they don't actually create down force its a misconception they are there to smooth under body air flow into the rear of the car this serves to improve the -L/D ratio(downforce to drag) when using a flat bottom or venturi under the car, also preventing some of the interference witha spoiler. You may not like the look of one but a significant spoiler and not a pretend style spoiler with give you real down force. Other then that maybe the boot lid could be restyled to help but a wing is the fundemental thing to help in this situation.

I like the exhaust fabrication, good work.

rich

Really I beg to differ

Thank you...
Regarding diffuser...
I thought to construct a flat bottom (as good as possible) and then to install 4 fins with about 60cm to the end...
The Fiat Coupe underfloor would help - it openes to the rear...
There are a lot of hill climb races in Germany - almost every car (even Integrale) use diffuser...
Are they all wrong??
I do not like a spolier - it looks ugly...
Juergen

Ok so my knowledge is not my own its the words of Simon McBeath, aerodymasist (sp) for race car engineering. Over a number of years I follow his wind tunnel work, what it proves is you cannot generalise about all devices. Thus you can not assume a diffussor help unless you test it in a wind tunnel so yes maybe all those cars have little benefit from the set ups. But you can test using the clock and see if you go faster. For example Reverie carbon pruducts made a diffussor for the lotus exige, when it was tunnel tested it didnt actually do a great job, but some minor changes to the the fin lengths and angle made a significant improvement. You could guess that a well though out theoretical diffusor would do a better job than no diffusor. If you made a flat bottom with a genuine venturi and diffusor then if the car was low engough you would assume that to give notable downforce, but maybe not at the end you want. I bet those hill climb cars if permittable all have spoilers, their function is not to look pleasing on the eye. Simon McBeath has wrutten a book on the subject perhaps get that first Juergen as the design is not just to make it look like a diffusor, the angle of the floor is very important. Spoiler is by far the easier and best value option.

Rich

by the way.. oil pan has to be cut to make the conversion.. what about the amount of oil in the sistem? isn't there less oil?

Thats mental!!

well done mate!!

lol
you no what i mean buddy

True, that said I may have some additional input.
I made my diffusor with Volvo Design's aerodynamic looking over my shoulder. He reckoned that the Coupe has a great flat, covered floor from start. And he's seen a few!
That is crucial for a diffusor to have any effect.
So - as the angle of the last plastic cover don't exceed 20deg, you only need some vertical plates to make it into a diffusor. The lowest lip of the bumper should be cut away too.

Pics: http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2215&type=picture
http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2211&type=picture

The result was said to probably give a few kg's.. Good enough for me! It can't do any harm anyway.

Today the rearend is completed with a M5-spoiler.

Its fair enough, but a few kgs will be nothing compared to a wing which I think is the only way anyone will get any meaningful downforce to counteract a lack of rear grip. Just a a shame the ricers have given such a stigma to them.

@Per - Thank you for your input.
We decided to create a complete floor plate made from aluminium and to install 4 big fins about 60cm long and about 12cm high to the end. They will be vertical as done by you.
I will show you the results when ready.
@SediciRich - I know from a racing driver in Germany who meanwhile uses a big wing to the rear... an he does not want to miss it ( http://www.movit.de/rahmen/fiat.htm - here still witout the wing...).
He told me to try one... but as I said before... I dont like a wing - it destroys the design of the coupe (my opinion).
Regarding amount of oil: its about the same again...about 4,5l.
Juergen

I guess Juergen, fit one, go round the track with a stop watch, take it off and try again. With some thinking perhaps you could make it removable with minimal upset to the body work - maybe have 2 boot lids one normal and one ready and strengthend for a decent wing...just an idea.

rich

Please have a look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320345322026

If someone wants to do a 4x4 conversion - it seems to be all parts included...

Juergen

Does doesn't it! Now if only I had a 16VT to use as a mule!