It´s time for a new turbo - Mitsubishi 19T

I have modded my car with new FMIC, SIP and a Blueflame exhaust. But this story is about my new turbo

Last year after attending a track day I saw that the turbo started to smoke a little bit. I went to my mechanic and we both realised that it was time to change turbo.

So what do you buy?? Many people on fccuk buy a Garrett GT28R or RS but I didn´t want to modifiy the exhast too much so that idea kind of disappeared rather quickly

After that I decided to upgrade the original turbo to a GTiR. I was about to contact a local turbo company here in Göteborg when a guy at the Swedish Fiat forum said that he was about to install a Mitsubishi 16T on his Fiat Coupé 20V Turbo LE. I asked him if that was possible. Yes the man who build the turbocharger changes the flange to a T25 so that it can sit on the exhaust manifold. Damn that sounds so good
I then talked to some people (at Volvo Car Corp.) and all said that the Mitsubishi turbo is quit nice. The turbo has slide bearing so if the bearing will break it´s easy to change it. I just thought that the 16T was too small for my project. I went to the company that builds the turbochargers and found out that a 19T should solve all my problems. After a while I made up my mind and ordered a 19T with a T25 flange.

So this week I picked up the turbocharger . It´s TD04-19T (it´s installed in Volvo V70R AWD if you didn´t know) and it has a 360 degrees slide bearing. I only have to cut the end of the downpipe and weld on a new flange. I will install the new turbo in April. In the beginning I will use the standard ECU and GM EBV, FPR and a Gtec2. After a RR session and if everything is okay, I will install a GReddy Profec B spec II EBC. I will then turn up the boost

I hope I can reach 320-330 hp

Pics:

Compressor side

T25 flange

Turbine housing

360 degrees bearing

Interesting, it may be the perspective in the last picture but it does look wide. Hopefully it will fit nicely

Nice project. The actuator looks enormous!

any chance of having the specs of this turbo and its diagrams?
wtf is that slanted cover on the compressor side
oil and water cooled or just oil?

I hope I can use the heat shield after installation

I will get a compressor map and specs for the turbo. Just wait a day or two
Volvo use the plate for mounting the Blow Off Valve.
The turbo is oil and water cooled.

Its what most people with T5s upgrade to as its a simple bolt on to the standard manifold, only things that need to be changed is the downpipe and a remap.

You should be able to achieve 300bhp fairly easily.

Us T5 lot are trying to get away from the Mitsi turbo and in to the Garrett BB T3 flanged turbos' lol.

And I try to get away from Garrett BlackBeast

Hi Fredrik,

Nice to see that you have taken one step further ..., in never ending game .

Yes, with the -19T you will get easily that 300 - 320 bhp out of the engine. I'm not 100% sure, but is it the same turbo than Saito / Italy sells as "SC300" for Coupe.

You will need to change the wastegate actuator placing, because like that it won't fit. The gearbox housing is too close to that, GT28R turbos with original actuators have the same problem.

Keep us posted with the new project .

- Jari -

Here are a bunch of flowmaps for different turbos including the TD04 19t

http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm

Thanks for all tips and comments

The first small problem has arrived
Yesterday I held the turbo at the right position. Me and my mechanic saw that the wastegate touches the engine. So we need to make a new bracket and relocate the wastegate.

Today there is a new wastegate installed on the T19 but it´s too hard. I will reuse the original wastegate from TB28, so I can use the ECU + EBV for boost control. Do anyone think there will be a problem?

as per the last thread I started on wastegates and actuators, I'd guess if the leverage is similar, hence similar power is needed to operate the wastegate, shouldn't be a problem...

Compressor map:

TD04-19T

Hey Freddan, sounds interesting...

so if you have to cut the DP and weld a new flange onto it (which diameter and flange type btw), what is the benefit of it as opposed to the Garretts ???

apart from that, what do you pay for a 19T - are they cheaper than the GTs ??

Greetz Jochen

looks like a nice turbo, good operating range from the look of the flow map and a slightly higher efficiency than the garret. looks like a good choice to me so far, i hope you dont have too much of a problem fitting it.

Hi Jochen,
The turbine outlet is 2.5". I will use this flange see pic here . The downpipe is 2.75". Hopefully the exhaust gases can escape pretty fast
Compared with the GT28RS it should spool up better and hold boost better at the top. But I will only know for sure after I have visited the RR

My turbo was a cheaper alternative than a GT28RS.



Thank you! Let´s hope for the best.

just been comparing the 19T compressor map with the map for my GT2871

observations:

The surge line is broadly equal
the efficiency island of the 19t is lower, but about the same legth (19T runs from 0.4 bar to 1.4 bar - 2871 runs from 0.6 bar to 1.6 bar)
19T looks to be more efficient - it will *almost* move 40lb/min at about 1.4 bar at max efficiency - 2871 is off its efficiency island to move 40lb
dead centre of the efficiency island for the 19T is 30lb @ 1 bar - 2871 is about 28lb @ 1.2 bar

My only worry is that the 19T appear to be a smaller turbo - the turbine revs are much higher at any given boost pressure (eg 1.1 bar - 19T is running at 130,000rpm, 2871 is running at 103,000rpm)

My guess is that this turbo will give very good torque figures and will spool up nicely, but I wonder if its better suited to a bigger engine that will shift more air

I'll be very interested to hear the results

Freddan - are you 100% sure the exhaust will fit on the end? I replaced my turbo the other week and it was pretty tight in there.

100% procent sure

On the T5, I dont think anyone runs higher than 1.4bar with the 19T, in the UK at least. Not sure what the swedes do. 99% of those that upgrade to the 19T have come from either a 15G or a 16T turbo, their usual comment is that the 19T feels laggy.

Ive been driven around in 2 T5s with a 19T and a GT2871R and id choose the Garrett over the 19T any day. Whether it was the difference between the 19T havinga 2.5ltr engine compared to the GT that had a 2.3 I dont know, or the mapping, but the GT28 felt more powerfull and was a league above the 19T.

Small update

The car is in the garage now. Jippi!!
Can anyone see a turbo??

The old turbo was not in top condition . Now I know why it was smoking.
Turbine housing

Here is a pic of my SIP:
Wooooosch, says the air when it passes the air flow meter

I will also change oil and oil filter. I will use Agip Racing 10w-60. Best oil in the world

Bet you cant wait freddan

The fun of changing a turbo

Ben

Here are some more pics from the installation

19T in place

Wastegate actuator

SIP and dumpvalve back in right position

Finally - downpipe with new flange

Tomorrow we will start the engine

Good work

Looks like a very stock installation, and hopfully it looks
like the heatseild will fit without haking it

Ben

Today we started the engine. No oil or water leakage so everything is perfect . No blue smoke either

I will drive the car tomorrow and start to see how the turbo charges. I have made one change from my to do list. I´m not using the wastegate from the TB2810 turbo. We wanted to test the wastegate that came with the turbo. It´s a little bit stronger and opens at 1 bar (TB2810 opens at 0.6 bar). I let you know how it behave

The heat shield fits perfect. From the outside you can´t see that the engine has a new turbo. Just the way I want it

Okay so finally everything is working

We (I and my mechanic) had some problems with the boost pressure. So we took of the pipe for the wastegate actuator and stiffen the wastegate rod and went out on the road. The turbo boosted like crazy . At least now we knew it worked. So back in the garage and hook up the EBV and out again on the road. Now the pressure went up to 1.5 Bar and something else happened. The clutch slipped Damn! So now I need to install a better clutch if I want to use high pressure. After the second run my mechanic loosen the wastegate rod a little bit and we tested it once again. This time it hit 1.3 Bar and no slip

Next tuning step will be an adjustable FPR and RR session. Can´t wait....

Sounds good. How is spool up and how low in the rev range do you get boost?

I haven´t checked so much. I have 1 bar at 3000 rpm (4th gear), 1.3 bar at 3500 rpm (+/- 200 rpm). I will check it more properly after the RR.
This week I will install a FPR and head to the RR next week. I post result a.s.a.p.

New Malpassi 1:1.2 installed. At first I was thinking about a 1:1.4 but changed my mind and went for the smaller one. I will fine tune it at RR next week.

Is it vacation here or what??

Well yesterday I was at the RR place and everything is working okay now. I will soon post results in the RR section

One small update from me.

I have installed some new parts during the summer.

*GTA Clutch
*AEM EBC, mounted on the A-pillar (I'll post a pic later), holder from AutoDS.
*Bigger injectors (from a 16vt)
*Bosch platina spark plugs

The ebc works really well. You have two settings; A & B. I have chosen A to be the big boost option , 1.5 bar, and B is the wife option, 1.1 bar. The car and engine runs so good and it pulls like mad on setting A. Holy sh*it is maybe a better way to explain it .

The next step will be a RR at the end of the month. This time I use V-Power and hopefully I will see 350 HP

You know you want your fuelling to be very good running at 1.5bar

Ben

AEM off and on



I also fixed the front calipers with new paint and white brembo logo.



Outside my flat. It's sunny and warm in Sweden today, time for a .

Looking good mate, nice boost meter! I currently have a white faced one with light blue lightt...looks chav!

So you are running 1.5bar, you sure this is safe?

I think I get roughly 420-430 Nm with 1.5 Bar so nothing to worry about. I will soon check air-fuel ratio and until then I will not use the high boost option (A).

Yesterday evening I did some calculation. I asked myself: Do I have enough fuel for 340 HP?

I search the internet and found this equation:

HP = (number of injectors X flow rate cc X injector duty cycle )/(BSFC X 10.2).

Garrett says BSFC should be between 0.5-0.6 for turbocharged engines. I used 0.55.

So with 330cc, 90% duty cycle I got:
HP = 5 x 330 x 0.9 / 0.55 x 10.2 = 1485 / 5.61 = 265

With 384cc, 90% duty cycle I got:
HP = 5 x 384 x 0.9 / 0.55 x 10.2 = 308

So I need a FPR. I tested with a 3.8 bar regulator.
It's very easy to calculate the new flow rate.
384 x the square root of (3.8/3) = 384 X 1.1255 = 432 cc

So the new HP will be 5 x 432 x 0.9 / 0.55 x 10.2 = 346.7 hp ~347 hp > 340 hp

I read in "20VT Tuning Workshop - The Knowledge " that the standard 384cc 16VT injectors @ 3.8Bar can fuel upto 360BHP. What equation do you use?

No equations needed, real world data should be used in this instance therefore 380cc would just about cover it on a 20vt but I would recommend going to 400cc or 440cc because it gives you plenty of headroom.

For 360 hp, and if you don't change any other values, the injector duty cycle will be 93.5%.

With 440cc injectors and 3.8 bar FPR you can go upto 397hp > 340hp. So plenty of headroom

(440 x the square root of (3.8/3) = 495cc)

(5 x 495 x 0.9 / 0.55 x 10.2 = 397 hp)

Well I went to my RR place and the result was so bad. The fuel pump decided to give up and the fuel pressure dropped after 4600 rpm. But at least I could see that the new turbo is okay

Here is a comparison between TD04-19T (controlled by AEM EBC) and TB28 (controlled by Armval PRV):



I will do a new run after I have installed a better fuel pump. I just don't know what to get. SARD, Walbro 255 or Bosch
The turbo is good for 1.7 bar. Next run will be very close to that

Was your fuel pump standard during the RR?

I say go with something that is tested and popular like the Walbro 255.

Looking forward for the results of the new RR run, good luck

Freddan, I check locally and the SARD is alot more expensive than the walbro, in saying that it does hold better pressure in the high boost areas, I think when you are talking 5bar fuel pressure the flow difference is quite a bit

Cheers

Yes standard. Many people have used the Walbro so maybe I should just buy it.

How much for the SARD? I have not find a place in Sweden that sells the SARD pump.
Here in Sweden I can buy a Walbro for 1100 SEK = 108 Euro.

I would say the Sard is nearer 180euro here, and then freight

If you can't get it locally the walbro is tried and tested

Is Walbro GSS341 the right one?

Get the Walbro GSS340, it's the high pressure version and it best fits the Coupé.

Thanks Hani!

I have just bought a GSS340. Now I just have to install it, but I can't find a good "how to" guide. I'm really eager to go to the RR. I need to know that the car is okay before I park it in the garage (bloody winter is coming to Sweden ).

Hi Fredrik,

If you not in hurry, I will send you tomorrow couple pictures (some explanations/instructions) of the pump change. It is really easy job!
I would say that max 1 hour job.

I have 340 pump too installed into my car.

-Jari-

supernice Jari!!

Here is a comparison between TB28 (controlled by PRV, FMIC, 2.75" Blueflame, RC, SIP), GT28RS 0.64 (Saint EBC, 3" exhaust, FMIC, RC, SIP) and TD04-19T (AEM EBC, FMIC, 2.75" Blueflame, RC, SIP). All three setups have been tested on the same RR.

TB28 and 19T have journal bearings.
GT28RS has ball bearing.



TB28: 1 bar @ 3050 rpm
GT28RS: 1 bar @ 3250 rpm
19T: 1 bar @ 3300 rpm

As you can see the OE turbo has best spool up. 19T is little bit slower than RS but not so much. This shows that a ball bearing turbo is not so much faster in spool up than a journal bearing turbo.

GT28RS and 19T are very close when you compare max hp. At my latest RR i got 296 whp and I just saw that broadley almost got the same figure (first run 295 whp). Hopefully I will see 10-15 more whp when I sort out the fuelling issue.

Freddan, but what is the turbine sizing between the 19T unit and the gt28RS and exhaust side A/R?

TD04HL-19T (Volvo S70/V70 R)

Turbine wheel:
Inducer 52 mm
Exducer 45.6 mm
Trim 79
Turbine housing 0.49 A/R

Compressor wheel:
Inducer 46 mm
Exducer 58 mm
Trim 63


GT28RS (739548 - 1)

Turbine wheel:
Wheel diam 53.8 mm
Trim 76
Turbine housing 0.64 A/R

Compressor wheel:
Inducer 47.2 mm
Exducer 60 mm
Trim 62

I reinstalled the original injectors some days ago. I could right away feel that the original injectors was so much better and the response from the turbo was really nice now.
I have learned one thing. Do not install bigger injectors if you don't have a map that support it. You may ask why I installed them anyway? I got info that the ECU works okay with 380cc injectors. But not for my car.

I went for a new run and the engine managed 312 WHP (358 CRANK HP)

More info here: The Swedes 4th and 5th RR - It's just crazy now

Another graph.

This time I compare my last result (October 2009) with three other setups. All tested on the same RR but not on the same day.

Spec.
Garrett TB28: PRV, FMIC, 2.75" exhaust, race cat, Gtec2
Mitsubishi 19T: AEM EBC, FMIC, 2.75" exhaust, race cat, Gtec2
Garrett GT28RS 0.64: Saint EBC, 3" exhaust, FMIC, race cat, Gtec2

These three are very similar in setup. Only big difference is the exhaust.
Maybe there is a difference between PRV and EBC regarding boost pressure build up. I don't know for sure. For me they are the same.

Garrett GT28R 0.64: GM EBV, 3" exhaust, FMIC, race cat, FC Performance chip
This engine uses ECU boost control.


Link to graph

So let us compare these setups.
As you can see the TB28 is very good in the beginning. No question about it, TB28 is the best turbo on low revs. Lets have a look at the "big" three, GT28R, RS and 19T. These turbochargers are designed to make +300 BHP. I'm very surprised to see that 19T is first to reach 1 Bar. It's slow in the beginning but after a while it starts to spool and goes really well. It is also very strange to see that the GT28R is the slowest one. Maybe Flea can tell us why?

Boost pressure in Bar @ 2900 rpm
Garrett TB28: 0,81
Mitsubishi 19T: 0,56
Garrett GT28RS: 0,6
Garrett GT28R: 0,61

@3100 rpm
Garrett TB28: 1,1
Mitsubishi 19T: 0,84
Garrett GT28RS: 0,84
Garrett GT28R: 0,8

@ 3300 rpm
Garrett TB28: 1,27
Mitsubishi 19T: 1,11
Garrett GT28RS: 1,06
Garrett GT28R: 0,99

really like what you have done here
So much so I am going to follow you down this route

One question why did you adapt the downpipe to the turbo and not the other way ?

V-band adapters are available ....

Coming forom the Saab world the 19t is the preferred upgrade for 350 hp and its reliable ,unlike the crappy gt28 which seems to fall over very easily
turbo seals ,running without a cat ,too high a boost pressure all seem to crap out the t28 (and they only last 70 k miles.....)

tdo4 will give you 150 k at 1.4 bar .....

and they are cheaper .....

Hi,

Thanks for the nice comment.

There is very little space for an adapter. I thought that the easiest way must be to add a flange to the downpipe. The flange is also very cheap (cost roughly £25) so that also helps when you make up your mind.

Comparison between my old TB28 and my current 19T.

Yes folks, one more comparison
Results are from the same RR.

SPECIFICATION

2007
Original TB28 Garrett turbo
Pro Alloy FMIC
Pro Alloy SIP med APEXi konfilter
Blueflame 2.75" exhaust, 1 silencer
Motorsport 100 cells race cat
Forge DV006

Gtec2
NGK BKUR 7ET

Armval BCV11

Fuel: Shell V-Power 99 octane

Temperatures:
Outside: 17 C
Inlet manifold: 32 C (widget)
Delta: 15 C

2009
TD04HL-19T-7 Mitsubishi turbo
Pro Alloy FMIC
Pro Alloy SIP med konfilter
Blueflame 2.75" exhaust, 1 silencer
Motorsport 100 cells race kat
Forge DV006

Malpassi FPR 1:1.2
Walbro GSS340

Gtec2
Bosch Platina tändstift

AEM Tru-Boost (EBC)
Alfa Romeo GTA clutch

Fuel: Shell V-Power 99 octane

Temperatures:
Outside: 10 C
Inlet manifold: 24 C (widget)
Delta: 14 C

GRAPHS

So how far can you push these turbochargers?

Wheel HP:

link

Wheel torque:

link

Boost pressure (max):

link
100 kPa = 1 Bar.

Max wheel power:
TB28: 240 HP @ 5200 => 278 crank HP*
19T: 312 hk @ 6100 => 358 crank HP*

Max wheel torque:
TB28: 330 Nm @ 4600
19T: 421 Nm @ 4900

*Puma racing's formula

NEXT STEP: FC Performance

I want to see how much better the engine will be with a FC Performance tuning chip. And not just higher hp, I want to see if other things, such as off boost behaviour, turbo response etc, will be better with a FC chip.

If I get +5% more power, with the FC chip, then I will reach 328 HP (375 crank HP*). Not bad at all if you ask me. Let's hope for the best

Hello , I'm oliv54 ,I'm french and I have a kinugawa TD04 19T flange t25 et and I have a big problem with the wastegate !The installation is impossible !

You may sendind me a pictures of your installation?please:-)

Hi,

You can find pics of the installation here: Time for a new turbo
I hope it can help you.

Where did you buy your turbo?