That link says discontinued at the top!

There is limited stock of these so I can still get a set but I’m not sure if the spray pattern is correct to our intake manifold.

The Genesis is 100% perfect for the 20VT they have the correct spray pattern and are 380cc. I have e-mailed him about trade prices as I may smell a group unless somebody wants to open a trade account.

the first person who gets PT to map their car with these may have to pay for a couple of extra hours work as they will be quite different in behaviour to the 16VT ones other than the flow at 3 bar

That will be me then i'm in on the 27th. Then everyone elese is gonna copy my map for cheaper.

UPDATE FROM USR:

Wow, you're motivated. Here's the skinny on the situation:

a) I have absolutely no experience with the FIAT engines because the
marquee
hasn't been in the USA since 1981.

b) The Genesis 380cc are vitally important to our VW/Audi business and
we've
only got a limited quantity for the time being. (This is why we won't break
up sets.)

c) I would much rather have you test the Siemens 380cc which I believe will
fit directly. They do deliver the single wide cone (vs split pattern), but
atomization is actually superior. Here are spray videos for comparison:

Genesis 380cc:
http://www.usrallyteam.com/downloads/genesis_small.wmv

Siemens 380cc:
http://www.usrallyteam.com/downloads/sd36_injector.mpg

Theoretically, the Siemens should produce slightly more midrange and peak
torque. The Genesis may facilitate marginally cleaner emissions and
fractionally better throttle response at shallow throttle angles.

I've got to protect my supply on the Genesis for now. So long as either
fit,
they'll work. So, how about test fitting the Siemens and going from there?
Btw, is there some sort of discussion of our injectors in the UK FIAT
forums? I ask because we've received multiple inquiries in the past few
weeks!

Cheers,

I'm using Siemens 750cc injectors and they are the best in the business at that size.

UPDATE2:

I have only 100 Genesis 380cc left and know that I would be unwise to blow
out 20 pieces to the FIAT crowd. Please take no offense about that! Also, I
can't sell 5 pieces because that will leave me with 3 left overs which will
do USRT no good. If you only wanted a set of 4x G380 I'd be perfectly happy
to make them available to you. Do you follow what I'm saying here?

Meanwhile, the Siemens injectors are plentiful. We can ship as many as you
need immediately. Their spray pattern differs from your stock engine.
However, the single wide cone (featuring superior atomization) will work
optimally. Hours of engine dyno and injector flow bench testing bear this
out!

Here's an example for you. The VAG 1.8T 20v engines originally came with an
injector with a single wide cone (AEB/AGU code) and then were later
supplied
with the twin-spray type. Similarly, the Bosch 315cc "red tops" are used to
great effect by many Stateside VAG tuners. They spray a single wide cone.
Meanwhile, the famed Bosch 440cc "green tops" have been largely abandoned
by
the same tuners. These spray a single *narrow* cone. Narrow is bad. Wide or
split is good!

Siemens 380cc or Genesis 415cc is what I can do for you at this time, sir.

Thanks,


@ JohnS
Now that you have seen the videos and read what USR has said which injectors would you choose if you’re in my position?
It seems like spray pattern vs. atomization and I am unsure which to choose.

He's a bit of a fool. If the 'fiat crowd' start to use his 380s then they will probably end out being the defacto standard so in the long run he would get a lot more business in a market he otherwise gets nothing from...

I'd say that if he doesn't want to sell to 'the fiat crowd' then we can go elsewhere...

UPDATE3:
I absolutely would like to supply the FIAT market. The problem is only that we do not have enough Genesis injectors to go around right *now*. If USRT released these parts to your crowd, it would take about 2 - 3 weeks before there was nothing more to sell. Then, we would be back to this same discussion, anyway. I expect this situation to change in the future.

Do you think he reads this forum?

Nah, surely not......

I can get 20 injectors as a set for the following:

Genesis 380cc = $1250 = £160 for a set of 5

Seimans 380cc = $1075 = £138 for a set of 5

Which injectors shall i get?

Jay,

the difference between the two is very minor, but i still sway towards the seimens as the spray pattern is more modern

I am trying to get some seimens for the skyline now, i need 700-800cc ones, have you seen anyone doing them cheap while you have been searching??

Ricky

TurboJ they seem very cheap when i have heard people say 75 pounds per injector. Also what comeback do you get from a US dealer?

I would be interested to see where JohnS and Barbz, Flea etc bought their injectors from.

Surely we can source injectors here in the uk?

I think i will need some larger injectors but i also have another question to ask. Can we not get new 16vt injectors?

marco

As said earlier in the thread the 16VT injectors are the incorrect spray pattern and very dated technology.



If your keeping the Bosch ECU then the max is 380cc at 3.8Bar otherwise PT will not map it as its too much problems.

Injectors are far cheaper in the states than here,i was going to fit a bigger series turbo,and looking to maybe go for Big Greens (basically porsche 996 turbos injectors) and they where far far cheaper in the states than here.
Turbo J I may be interested in a set too if thats ok ?

Really, when did they tell you this?

Flea,

How well does your car idle with the bigger injectors? PT say that they had endless problems getting your car to run correctly with those injectors. Claudio said they are not keen to map another similar coupe with injectors bigger than 380cc.

Since my engine will be a similar spec and performance to yours, I was going to go for 400+ injectors, but after talking to PT, I'll go for the 380's with a 3.8fpr.

Possibly because the atomisation on those 440ccs aren't that good, but it might also be because it's more difficult to stop the map wandering with the adaption capabilities of the ECU. But I would bet that a modern equivalent injector will be a lot better.

The problem in general is also that it is harder to drive larger high impedance injectors than low impedance which is why above a certain size only low impedance is recommended for any application.

If you use a 3.8 bar or higher FPR make sure you have a GSS341 or GSS342 pump otherwise you might run out of fuelling particularly if you are liberal with the boost

Flea - you know what the best form of flattery is?

Saturday, Cladio said that if they need more fuel from 380cc @ 3.8Bar then you would need to go standalone. It’s just pushing the Bosch system too far and he didn’t seem keen on trying another one.

So Squid if you run out of fuel on the Dyno better have OMEX’s number on speed dial

basically thats what pt told me too ,and as i`m kinda far away,I didn`t want to have the `wandering issue` and the poor tickover,so i`m going 380cc and 3.8 fpr too,and get the best I can from the set up I have

OK guys a group buy is being setup for anyone interested. I'm not going to be running it but the prices will be uploaded as soon as I have confirmation of availability.

We are going for the Seimans 380cc with the good atomization spray patteren.

well done

Well for £138 i reckon they might be worth a try. However i use the new version of the Unichip so i'm not sure about all the talk from PT as i don't have any dealings with them. I have my own ideas on which direction i'm going and i think i'm better sticking to that for now.

After speaking to Flea at the weekend(cheers mate very helpful) although not finished yet my car was already making 350bhp and 300lbs ft at 1 bar of boost at only 5500 rpm. This is on standard injectors, walbro pump and 3.8 bar fpr. I think there are other avenues to try first before just bolting on bigger injectors.

What i'm trying to say is that bolting bigger components is not always the way to cure a problem.

TurboJ do you use a unichip?

Could all those interested in a set of 380cc siemens injectors let me know. Obviously, the more confirmed orders we have, the lower the price.

However, I also need to confirm that those Siemens injectors will be interchangeable with the original Bosch injectors. I am hoping for confirmation on that by tomorrow.

Who's running this, you or TurboJ?

Are you asking me matt? If so yes me.